[Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?

[Gottschalk, Haim]

According to the HCM (June 2014 edition) on page 17 it says “Alcalay is useful for the identification of sheṿa naḥ (quiescent) and sheṿa na‘ (mobile) in that he usually does not transcribe the sheṿa naḥ in his vocalization scheme.” I looked up my deskcopy of Alcalay (1966 edition) and on column 32 it says “Ehyeh asher ehyeh” following the grammar rules regarding the sheva.

Haim

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+hgot=loc.gov at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Joan Biella
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?

Even-Shoshan is the arbiter of these questions.  The aim of ALA/LC romanization schemes is to produce easily verified, standardized equivalents, not to represent the pronunciation of a contemporary group, no matter who, no matter how large (or small).  Many vocal friends don't like these facts, but please consider the benefits of, I'll say it again, easily verified, standardized romanizations for our enormous library community.
Joan
P.S.  I learned Hebrew in a very unusual way, in connection with obtaining a degree in (wait for it!) Comparative Semitic Philology.  There are quite a few things about LC romanization that I hate very much and feel are wrong, wrong, wrong, doing horrible injustice to the "true" Hebrew I studied in conjunction with its sister Semitic languages.  So what?  ALA/LC romanization serves a different purpose and a different community.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
I agree with Barry; as in various other cases, we disregard pronunciation in favor of established vocalization/rules.  Users beware…

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:23 PM

To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?

I think it's time to light the Joan signal.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Barry Walfish <barry.walfish at utoronto.ca<mailto:barry.walfish at utoronto.ca>> wrote:
In this case, the native speaker's pronunciation follows the path of least resistance. It's easier to say eheyeh than ehyeh, so the vowels shift. This happens in a lot of cases. I don't think there's any question that the sheva is nah. But I've been surprised before. But for romanization purposes we should follow the grammar rules, no?

Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.
Judaica Specialist
University of Toronto Libraries
Toronto, ON M5S 1A5
Canada
________________________________
From: Heb-naco [heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>] on behalf of Yossi Galron [jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:51 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?
There is no discussion on the Nikud of the word, but how to pronounce it.
The question is - is it a שווא נח or a שווא נע.?
The modern pronunciation is Eheyeh. Native Hebrew speakers would go for Eheyeh.

שיהיה לכם יום טוב



Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362<tel:%28614%29%20292-3362>,  Fax: (614)292-1918<tel:%28614%29292-1918>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Yes, E-Sh. under Hayah, p. 380 on the right has just a sheva, no patah, with a subentry for Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (Shemot 3:14, as cited by Barry) (see attached).

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bjshino>=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu<mailto:pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Yossi Galron
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:35 PM
To: Robert M. TALBOTT; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?

Check ES under Hayah היה page 380 on the right side of the page.

I also checked Rav milim by Yaakov Choueka (1996) and there there is a hataf under the He
(see attached)



Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362<tel:%28614%29%20292-3362>,  Fax: (614)292-1918<tel:%28614%29292-1918>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>> wrote:
I am for Eheyeh.

Eheyeh asher Eheyeh

Yossi



Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362<tel:%28614%29%20292-3362>,  Fax: (614)292-1918<tel:%28614%29292-1918>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Robert M. TALBOTT <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu<mailto:rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>> wrote:
Folks:

alef heh yud heh: my sense of this, which is apparently supported by the various dictionaries, is that this is romanized as "ehyeh" ; there's a sheva under the first heh However, there is not consensus on OCLC; about 20% of the entries I saw had "eheyeh," and many of these are from reliable institutions.

Ehyeh, right?  If I'm wrong, why?

--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron

_______________________________________________
Heb-naco mailing list
Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco



_______________________________________________
Heb-naco mailing list
Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco


_______________________________________________
Heb-naco mailing list
Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco



--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron

_______________________________________________
Heb-naco mailing list
Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osu.edu/pipermail/heb-naco/attachments/20160902/5cc9072e/attachment-0001.html>