[Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?

Fri Sep 2 11:13:04 EDT 2016

Thank you all very much for you comments.  It's been helpful.

Bob

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Gottschalk, Haim <hgot at loc.gov> wrote:

> According to the HCM (June 2014 edition) on page 17 it says “Alcalay is
> useful for the identification of sheṿa naḥ (quiescent) and sheṿa na‘ (mobile)
> in that he usually does not transcribe the sheṿa naḥ in his vocalization
> scheme.” I looked up my deskcopy of Alcalay (1966 edition) and on column
> 32 it says “Ehyeh asher ehyeh” following the grammar rules regarding the
> sheva.
>
>
>
> Haim
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+hgot=loc.gov at lists.osu.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *Joan Biella
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 11:37 PM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?
>
>
>
> Even-Shoshan is the arbiter of these questions.  The aim of ALA/LC
> romanization schemes is to produce easily verified, standardized
> equivalents, not to represent the pronunciation of a contemporary group, no
> matter who, no matter how large (or small).  Many vocal friends don't like
> these facts, but please consider the benefits of, I'll say it again, easily
> verified, standardized romanizations for our enormous library community.
>
> Joan
>
> P.S.  I learned Hebrew in a very unusual way, in connection with obtaining
> a degree in (wait for it!) Comparative Semitic Philology.  There are quite
> a few things about LC romanization that I hate very much and feel are
> wrong, wrong, wrong, doing horrible injustice to the "true" Hebrew I
> studied in conjunction with its sister Semitic languages.  So what?  ALA/LC
> romanization serves a different purpose and a different community.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:26 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I agree with Barry; as in various other cases, we disregard pronunciation
> in favor of established vocalization/rules.  Users beware…
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> M. TALBOTT
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:23 PM
>
>
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?
>
>
>
> I think it's time to light the Joan signal.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Barry Walfish <barry.walfish at utoronto.ca>
> wrote:
>
> In this case, the native speaker's pronunciation follows the path of least
> resistance. It's easier to say eheyeh than ehyeh, so the vowels shift. This
> happens in a lot of cases. I don't think there's any question that the
> sheva is nah. But I've been surprised before. But for romanization purposes
> we should follow the grammar rules, no?
>
>
> Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.
> Judaica Specialist
> University of Toronto Libraries
> Toronto, ON M5S 1A5
> Canada
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] on behalf of Yossi
> Galron [jgalron at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:51 PM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?
>
> There is no discussion on the Nikud of the word, but how to pronounce it.
>
> The question is - is it a שווא נח or a שווא נע.?
>
> The modern pronunciation is Eheyeh. Native Hebrew speakers would go for
> Eheyeh.
>
>
>
> שיהיה לכם יום טוב
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, E-Sh. under Hayah, p. 380 on the right has just a sheva, no patah,
> with a subentry for Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh (Shemot 3:14, as cited by Barry) (see
> attached).
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.
> osu.edu] *On Behalf Of *Yossi Galron
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 01, 2016 4:35 PM
> *To:* Robert M. TALBOTT; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] ehyeh, right?
>
>
>
> Check ES under Hayah היה page 380 on the right side of the page.
>
>
>
> I also checked Rav milim by Yaakov Choueka (1996) and there there is a
> hataf under the He
>
> (see attached)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am for Eheyeh.
>
>
>
> Eheyeh asher Eheyeh
>
>
>
> Yossi
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Robert M. TALBOTT <
> rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
>
>
> alef heh yud heh: my sense of this, which is apparently supported by the
> various dictionaries, is that this is romanized as "ehyeh" ; there's a
> sheva under the first heh However, there is not consensus on OCLC; about
> 20% of the entries I saw had "eheyeh," and many of these are from reliable
> institutions.
>
>
>
> Ehyeh, right?  If I'm wrong, why?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bob Talbott
>
> Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger
>
> UC Berkeley
>
> 250 Moffitt
>
> Berkeley, CA 94720
>
> I'm just mad about Saffron
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bob Talbott
>
> Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger
>
> UC Berkeley
>
> 250 Moffitt
>
> Berkeley, CA 94720
>
> I'm just mad about Saffron
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>

-- 
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osu.edu/pipermail/heb-naco/attachments/20160902/c14c2c78/attachment-0001.html>