[Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help

Thu Jun 30 19:16:13 EDT 2016

Sorry, our email has been down at work and I’m just catching up with emails now.

So יאו is ‘yo’ (“injenYOzo”, “RomeYO”, “edisYOn”)?  Should it not then be “ṿerśYon”?  (and should this kelal be added to the chart?)

For other letters, though, how can I know just based on the Romanization table, when אי is ‘i’ (as in “Injenyozo”) and when it’s ‘e’ (as in “ḳompuʾEśṭo”)?  In the case of names, I can determine a י (yod) based on found Romanization (e.g. “ḲIshoṭe” and not “ḲEshoṭe”, “PIlar” and not “PElar”, etc.), but what about other words (e.g., “aljamIadah” and not (“aljamEadah”)?  Also, when do I add the aleph diacritic (“ḳompuʾeśṭo”, “Śaʾaṿedrah”), and when not (“aljamiadah”)? And when is a ו (vav) a ‘u’ and when an ‘o’ (“ḳOmpUʾeśṭO”, “ḳapiṭUlOs”)?

Or is my only hope to consult a Spanish speaker for the vowels? (They couldn’t advise on the diactric, though.)

Lisa Rohde (at JTS) emailed me directly; I will forward her response and my follow-up questions separately so as to avoid an overly lengthy email…

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Heidi G Lerner
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 11:58 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Cc: galron1 at osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help

Dear Jasmin,

Here is the romanization that I come up with based on the ALA/LC Romanization table:

El injenyozo Hidalgo Don Ḳishoṭe de lah Manjah :ǂbḳapiṭulos 1-8 /ǂcḳompuʾeśṭo por Migel de Servanṭes Śaʾaṿedrah : ṿerśion aljamiadah por Pilar Romeyo-Fero  śegun lah primerah edisyon de Madrid de Juan deh lah Ḳuesṭah (1605).

.Best, Heidi

Heidi G. Lerner

Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica

Metadata Dept.

Stanford University Libraries

Stanford, CA 94305-6004

ph: 650-725-9953

fax: 650-725-1120

e-mail: lerner at stanford.edu<mailto:lerner at stanford.edu>

________________________________
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu at lists.osu.edu>> on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:26 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Cc: galron1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron1 at osu.edu>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] Ladino romanization help

Hi, I’m struggling to understand the vowel Romanization for Ladino:  when does an א simply get transcribed as an ‘a’ and when with a diacritical aleph; when there’s no vocalization, how does one know when the ו (vav) is an ‘o’ or a ‘u’?  Is an אי always ‘e’, or sometimes ‘i’, depending on the context?  The same for a י (yod) -- when there’s no vocalization, how does one know when it’s an ‘e’ and when it’s an ‘i’?  For those of us who don’t know Spanish, it’s rather a toss-up.

The case I have in hand is

איל אינג'יניאוזו הידלגו דון קיש'וטי די לה מאנג'ה : ǂb

(קאפיטולוש. 1-8) / ǂc

קומפואישטו פור מיגיל די סירב'אנטיש שאאוידרה ; וירשיאון אלג'אמיאדה פור פילאר רומיאו-פ'ירי, שיגון לה פרימירה אידיסיאון די מאדריד די ג'ואן די לה קואישטה (1605)

Though there’s no vocalization on the ש’s, given the context I know they’re meant to be ‘sin’ (other than in קיש'וטי) ; but otherwise, do I go for consistency when Romanizing the vavs and yods, or, especially in the case of names, transcribe what makes sense?  This is my current stab at it:

El enjene’ozo hidalgo Don Ḳeshoṭe de lah Manjah : ǂb (ḳapitoloś. 1-8) / ǂc ḳompo’eśṭo por Megel de Servanṭeś Śa’aṿedrah ; ṿerśe’on aljameadah por Pelar Romeo-Fere, śegon lah premerah edeseon de Madrid de Joan de lah Ḳoeśṭah (1605).

But in this case I’ve got an added t.p. in Spanish:

El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha : ǂb (capítulos 1-8) / ǂc compuesto por Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra ; versión aljamiada por Pilar Romeu Ferré según la primera edición de Madrid de Juan de la Cuesta (1605).

Based on the Spanish I’m second-guessing some the romanized words:

1.      Should it be enjene’ozo or injeneozo? Or injene’ozo? Or injeni’ozo?

2.      Is it Ḳeshoṭe or Ḳishoṭe?

3.      ḳapitoloś. or ḳapituloś. (the full stop appears on the source)

4.      ḳompo’eśṭo or ḳompueśṭo? Or ḳompu’eśṭo?

5.      Megel or Migel?

6.      Śa’aṿedrah or Śaaṿedrah?

7.      ṿerśe'on or ṿerśion? Or ṿerśi’on?

8.      aljameadah or aljamiadah? Or aljami’adah?

9.      Pelar or Pilar?

10.   Romeo or Romeu? Or Rome’u?

11.   śegon or śegun?

12.   premerah or primerah?

13.   edeseon or edision? Or edisi’on?

14.   Jo’an or Juan? Or Ju’an?

15.   Ḳo’eśṭah or Ḳueśṭah? Or Ḳu’eśṭah?

Please advise.  Thanks!!  Jasmin

---

Jasmin Shinohara

Hebraica Cataloging Librarian

University of Pennsylvania

Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center

3420 Walnut Street

Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206

T. 215-746-6397

F. 215-573-9610

jshino at upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at upenn.edu>

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