[Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

Tue Oct 22 21:11:12 EDT 2013

If it's Hebrew, then Barzilai.

Please pardon typos; sent from my iPod.

On Oct 22, 2013, at 7:30 PM, Judith Zupnick <judiezup at msn.com> wrote:

> Is the Hebrew surname Barzilai or Barzilay according to LC Romanization? (to divert slightly from the discussion.. )
>  
> From: barry.walfish at utoronto.ca
> To: heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 17:14:57 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
> 
> I would agree with Rachel. It should be koktail and laidi like Rubinshtain for Hebrew  Koktel would be very misleading. That would be the spelling if there were no yodim in the word.
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> And also dray for Yiddish three.
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> Barry
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> From: heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Rachel Simon
> Sent: October 21, 2013 12:11 PM
> To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
> 
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> I just came across a similar case, this time with the problematic Romanization in the first word of the title, cataloged by LC:
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> הליידי של העיר הלבנה  =  ha-Ledi shel ha-ʻir ha-levanah
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> Don’t the “rules” call for “Laidi”?
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> Rachel
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> From: heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Manuel Frau-Cortes
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:46 AM
> To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
> 
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> I do agree with Mr. Talbot. This is a good solution if we keep in mind the end user and discoverability.
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> Rules are rules, but I kind of hate it when rules make impossible for people to find things in the catalog! Total “deramah” / דרמה.
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> Neil M. Frau-Cortes
> 
> Hebraica Cataloger
> 
> McKeldin Library
> 
> University of Maryland
> College Park, MD 20742
> Phone (301) 405-9337
> 
> nfrau at umd.edu
> 
>  
> 
> From: heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:34 AM
> To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
> 
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> Folks:
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> The way I would habve approached the data
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> 24510 [vernacular double yud form from tp]
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> 24510 Drai matini kotail
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> 2463  [vernacular single yud form from ESh
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> 2463  Drai martini koktel
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> The reason why this is causing so much trouble is that in our romanization scheme, double yud represents either "ai," the default form, or a XyX where the yud has a degesh (I honestly can't think of any instances where double yud represent a non-dageshed yud hauling a tsere or a segol, but I could be wrong).  So, for my money the best way to treat would be to transcribe what's on the piece according to usual practice (koktail; add a [sic] if you're still using AACR2) and to add the ESh form as an add title.
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> My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those Who Know.
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> Bob
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> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> wrote:
> 
> So in other words, I ought to add a 24633 for קוקטיל?
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> On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:
> 
> Fyi
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> Standard Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title in alternate ketiv since, for example the reader usually has no idea if the dictionary he is looking for is titled
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> מלון or מילון
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> Elhanan
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> Elhanan Adler
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> Email: elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il
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> Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657
> 
> Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977
> 
> Fax (home): 972-2-6517129
> 
>  
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> From: heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Jasmin Nof
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM
> To: Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof
> Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
> 
>  
> 
> ok, so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate diacritics) and deleted the extraneous 246.  thanks for your prompt response!
> 
> On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:
> 
> Oops, 
> I read the e-mail too oquickly about the tsere. I was thinking that it appeared on the resource.
> 
>  
> 
> No, to the best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations should not be as added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS for 2.3.6.3 offers guidelines and best practices for making variant titles for permutations related to the title proper. There is no discussion onrecording variant or incorrect transliterations (unless found somewhere on the resource). Maher discusses alternative romanizations in Hebraica Cataloging but only in regards to providing alternative romanizations as references to Hebraica names.
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> 
> --
> 
> Bob Talbott
> Hebraica Cataloger
> UC Berkeley
> 250 Moffitt
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>  
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