[Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

Tue Oct 22 18:46:29 EDT 2013

Is the Hebrew surname Barzilai or Barzilay according to LC Romanization? (to divert slightly from the discussion.. )

From: barry.walfish at utoronto.ca
To: heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 17:14:57 +0000
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

I would agree with Rachel. It should be koktail and laidi like Rubinshtain for Hebrew  Koktel would be very misleading. That would be the spelling if there
 were no yodim in the word. 

And also dray for Yiddish three.

Barry

From: heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
 [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca at lists.service.ohio-state.edu]
On Behalf Of Rachel Simon

Sent: October 21, 2013 12:11 PM

To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

I just came across a similar case, this time with the problematic Romanization in the first word of the title, cataloged by LC:

הליידי של העיר הלבנה 
 =  ha-Ledi shel ha-ʻir ha-levanah

Don’t the “rules” call for “Laidi”?

Rachel

From:

heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu]
On Behalf Of Manuel Frau-Cortes

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:46 AM

To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

I do agree with Mr. Talbot. This is a good solution if we keep in mind the end user and discoverability.

Rules are rules, but I kind of hate it when rules make impossible for people to find things in the catalog! Total “deramah” /
דרמה.

Neil M. Frau-Cortes
Hebraica Cataloger
McKeldin Library
University of Maryland

College Park, MD 20742

Phone (301) 405-9337
nfrau at umd.edu

From:
heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu]
On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT

Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:34 AM

To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

Folks:

The way I would habve approached the data

24510 [vernacular double yud form from tp]

24510 Drai matini kotail

2463  [vernacular single yud form from ESh

2463  Drai martini koktel

The reason why this is causing so much trouble is that in our romanization scheme, double yud represents either "ai," the default form, or a XyX where the yud has a degesh (I honestly can't think of any instances where
 double yud represent a non-dageshed yud hauling a tsere or a segol, but I could be wrong).  So, for my money the best way to treat would be to transcribe what's on the piece according to usual practice (koktail; add a [sic] if you're still using AACR2) and
 to add the ESh form as an add title.

My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those Who Know.

Bob

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> wrote:

So in other words, I ought to add a 24633 for
קוקטיל?

On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:

Fyi

Standard Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title in alternate ketiv since,
 for example the reader usually has no idea if the dictionary he is looking for is titled
מלון
or
מילון

Elhanan

Elhanan Adler

Email:
elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il
Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657
Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977
Fax (home): 972-2-6517129

From:
heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu]
On Behalf Of Jasmin Nof

Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM

To: Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof

Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

ok, so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate diacritics) and deleted the extraneous 246.  thanks for your prompt response!

On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:

Oops,

I read the e-mail too oquickly about the tsere. I was thinking that it appeared on the resource.

No, to the best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations should not be as added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS for 2.3.6.3 offers
 guidelines and best practices for making variant titles for permutations related to the title proper. There is no discussion onrecording variant or incorrect transliterations (unless found somewhere on the resource). Maher discusses alternative romanizations
 in Hebraica Cataloging but only in regards to providing alternative romanizations as references to Hebraica names.

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-- 

Bob Talbott
Hebraica Cataloger
UC Berkeley
250 Moffitt
Berkeley, CA 94720

We're happy as fish,
as gorgeous as geese,
and wonderfully clean in the morning.

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