[Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

[Jasmin Nof]

No, the "rules" call for Ledi; see the romanization chart: a tsere 
preceding the yod is 'e'.  Granted, ליידי doesn't appears in ES, but the 
sound we're trying to approximate is that of a tsere.  Romanizing it as 
'ai' implies that it rhymes with "lie".

On 10/21/2013 12:11 PM, Rachel Simon wrote:
>
> I just came across a similar case, this time with the problematic 
> Romanization in the first word of the title, cataloged by LC:
>
> הליידי של העיר הלבנה  =  ha-Ledi shel ha-ʻir ha-levanah
>
> Don’t the “rules” call for “Laidi”?
>
> Rachel
>
> *From:*heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] 
> *On Behalf Of *Manuel Frau-Cortes
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2013 11:46 AM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
>
> I do agree with Mr. Talbot. This is a good solution if we keep in mind 
> the end user and discoverability.
>
> Rules are rules, but I kind of hate it when rules make impossible for 
> people to find things in the catalog! Total “deramah” / דרמה.
>
> **
>
> *Neil M. Frau-Cortes*
>
> Hebraica Cataloger
>
> McKeldin Library
>
> University of Maryland
> College Park, MD 20742
> Phone (301) 405-9337
>
> nfrau at umd.edu
>
> *From:*heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> <mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> 
> [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] *On Behalf Of 
> *Robert M. TALBOTT
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2013 11:34 AM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
>
> Folks:
>
> The way I would habve approached the data
>
> 24510 [vernacular double yud form from tp]
>
> 24510 Drai matini kotail
>
> 2463  [vernacular single yud form from ESh
>
> 2463  Drai martini koktel
>
> The reason why this is causing so much trouble is that in our 
> romanization scheme, double yud represents either "ai," the default 
> form, or a XyX where the yud has a degesh (I honestly can't think of 
> any instances where double yud represent a non-dageshed yud hauling a 
> tsere or a segol, but I could be wrong).  So, for my money the best 
> way to treat would be to transcribe what's on the piece according to 
> usual practice (koktail; add a [sic] if you're still using AACR2) and 
> to add the ESh form as an add title.
>
> My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those Who Know.
>
> Bob
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu 
> <mailto:jnof at upenn.edu>> wrote:
>
> So in other words, I ought to add a 24633 for קוקטיל?
>
> On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:
>
>     Fyi
>
>     Standard Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title in
>     alternate ketiv since, for example the reader usually has no idea
>     if the dictionary he is looking for is titled
>
>     מלוןor מילון
>
>     Elhanan
>
>     Elhanan Adler
>
>     Email: elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il <mailto:elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il>
>
>     Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657
>
>     Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977
>
>     Fax (home): 972-2-6517129
>
>     *From:*heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
>     <mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>     [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] *On Behalf
>     Of *Jasmin Nof
>     *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM
>     *To:* Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof
>     *Cc:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
>     *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
>
>     ok, so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate
>     diacritics) and deleted the extraneous 246.  thanks for your
>     prompt response!
>
>     On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:
>
>         Oops,
>         I read the e-mail too oquickly about the tsere. I was thinking
>         that it appeared on the resource.
>
>         No, to the best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations should
>         not be as added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS for 2.3.6.3 offers
>         guidelines and best practices for making variant titles for
>         permutations related to the title proper. There is no
>         discussion onrecording variant or incorrect transliterations
>         (unless found somewhere on the resource). Maher discusses
>         alternative romanizations in Hebraica Cataloging but only in
>         regards to providing alternative romanizations as references
>         to Hebraica names.
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
> -- 
>
> Bob Talbott
> Hebraica Cataloger
> UC Berkeley
> 250 Moffitt
> Berkeley, CA 94720
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