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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">No, the "rules" call for Ledi; see the
romanization chart: a tsere preceding the yod is 'e'. Granted,
ליידי doesn't appears in ES, but the sound we're trying to
approximate is that of a tsere. Romanizing it as 'ai' implies
that it rhymes with "lie".<br>
<br>
On 10/21/2013 12:11 PM, Rachel Simon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1639E3FF2ABF2245B2602456B6D5B02147C1B01D@CSGMBX201W.pu.win.princeton.edu"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
just came across a similar case, this time with the
problematic Romanization in the first word of the title,
cataloged by LC:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span dir="RTL"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="HE">הליידי של העיר הלבנה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><span
dir="LTR"></span> = ha-Ledi shel ha-ʻir ha-levanah<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Don’t
the “rules” call for “Laidi”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rachel</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Manuel Frau-Cortes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 21, 2013 11:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of <span
dir="RTL" lang="HE">קוקטייל</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
do agree with Mr. Talbot. This is a good solution if we keep
in mind the end user and discoverability.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rules
are rules, but I kind of hate it when rules make impossible
for people to find things in the catalog! Total “deramah” /
</span><span dir="RTL"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="HE">דרמה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="CA"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="color:black">Neil M. Frau-Cortes</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Hebraica
Cataloger<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">McKeldin Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">University
of Maryland<br>
College Park, MD 20742<br>
Phone (301) 405-9337<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="nfrau@umd.edu">nfrau@umd.edu</a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 21, 2013 11:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of <span
dir="RTL" lang="HE">קוקטייל</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Folks:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The way I would habve approached the data<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">24510 [vernacular double yud form from
tp]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">24510 Drai matini kotail<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2463 [vernacular single yud form from
ESh<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2463 Drai martini koktel<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason why this is causing so much
trouble is that in our romanization scheme, double yud
represents either "ai," the default form, or a XyX where the
yud has a degesh (I honestly can't think of any instances
where double yud represent a non-dageshed yud hauling a
tsere or a segol, but I could be wrong). So, for my money
the best way to treat would be to transcribe what's on the
piece according to usual practice (koktail; add a [sic] if
you're still using AACR2) and to add the ESh form as an add
title.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those
Who Know.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin
Nof <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jnof@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jnof@upenn.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So in other words, I ought to add a
24633 for <span dir="RTL" lang="HE">
קוקטיל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>?<br>
<br>
On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fyi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Standard
Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title in
alternate ketiv since, for example the reader
usually has no idea if the dictionary he is looking
for is titled</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
dir="RTL"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="HE">מלון</span><span dir="RTL"
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D" lang="HE">
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">or
</span><span dir="RTL"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="HE">מילון</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Elhanan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Elhanan
Adler
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Email:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:elhanana@savion.huji.ac.il"
target="_blank">elhanana@savion.huji.ac.il</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mobile
tel.: 972-54-6829657</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tel.
(home) 972-2-6515977</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Fax
(home): 972-2-6517129</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target="_blank">mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jasmin Nof<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of <span
dir="RTL" lang="HE">קוקטייל</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">ok,
so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate
diacritics) and deleted the extraneous 246. thanks
for your prompt response!<br>
<br>
On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Oops,
<br>
I read the e-mail too oquickly about the
tsere. I was thinking that it appeared on the
resource.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">No, to the
best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations
should not be as added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS
for 2.3.6.3 offers guidelines and best
practices for making variant titles for
permutations related to the title proper.
There is no discussion onrecording variant or
incorrect transliterations (unless found
somewhere on the resource). Maher discusses
alternative romanizations in Hebraica
Cataloging but only in regards to providing
alternative romanizations as references to
Hebraica names.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Heb-naco mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">Heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco" target="_blank">https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">Heb-naco@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a><br>
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href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco"
target="_blank">https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<pre>Bob Talbott<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Hebraica Cataloger<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>UC Berkeley<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>250 Moffitt<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Berkeley, CA 94720<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>We're happy as fish,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>as gorgeous as geese,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>and wonderfully clean in the morning.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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