[Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

[Jasmin Nof]

Yes, in Yiddish, it would be dray -- three; in this case the word is 
Hebraicized English (or Hinglish) -- drai, as in yavesh.

On 10/21/2013 1:01 PM, Yossi Galron wrote:
> Jasmin
> If דריי (three) is in Yiddish - shouldn't it be Dray?
>
> Yossi
>
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschlaeger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu <mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu> or 
> jgalron at gmail.com <mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu 
> <mailto:jnof at upenn.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Except that 'ai' is the romanization used for when the
>     vocalization preceding the yod is a patah; here the romanization
>     preceding the yod is a tsere.  ALA-LC romanization calls for 'e'
>     in such cases.  So, yes, דריי is Drai, but if you romanize קוקטייל
>     as koktail, you imply that the two words are rhymes, which they
>     clearly are not.
>
>
>     On 10/21/2013 11:33 AM, Robert M. TALBOTT wrote:
>>     Folks:
>>     The way I would habve approached the data
>>     24510 [vernacular double yud form from tp]
>>     24510 Drai matini kotail
>>     2463  [vernacular single yud form from ESh
>>     2463  Drai martini koktel
>>     The reason why this is causing so much trouble is that in our
>>     romanization scheme, double yud represents either "ai," the
>>     default form, or a XyX where the yud has a degesh (I honestly
>>     can't think of any instances where double yud represent a
>>     non-dageshed yud hauling a tsere or a segol, but I could be
>>     wrong).  So, for my money the best way to treat would be to
>>     transcribe what's on the piece according to usual practice
>>     (koktail; add a [sic] if you're still using AACR2) and to add the
>>     ESh form as an add title.
>>     My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those Who Know.
>>     Bob
>>     On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu
>>     <mailto:jnof at upenn.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>         So in other words, I ought to add a 24633 for קוקטיל?
>>
>>         On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:
>>>
>>>         Fyi
>>>
>>>         Standard Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title
>>>         in alternate ketiv since, for example the reader usually has
>>>         no idea if the dictionary he is looking for is titled
>>>
>>>         מלוןor מילון
>>>
>>>         Elhanan
>>>
>>>         Elhanan Adler
>>>
>>>         Email: elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il
>>>         <mailto:elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il>
>>>
>>>         Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657
>>>
>>>         Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977
>>>
>>>         Fax (home): 972-2-6517129
>>>
>>>         *From:*heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
>>>         <mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>>>         [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] *On
>>>         Behalf Of *Jasmin Nof
>>>         *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM
>>>         *To:* Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof
>>>         *Cc:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
>>>         *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
>>>
>>>         ok, so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate
>>>         diacritics) and deleted the extraneous 246.  thanks for your
>>>         prompt response!
>>>
>>>         On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:
>>>
>>>             Oops,
>>>             I read the e-mail too oquickly about the tsere. I was
>>>             thinking that it appeared on the resource.
>>>
>>>             No, to the best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations
>>>             should not be as added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS for
>>>             2.3.6.3 offers guidelines and best practices for making
>>>             variant titles for permutations related to the title
>>>             proper. There is no discussion onrecording variant or
>>>             incorrect transliterations (unless found somewhere on
>>>             the resource). Maher discusses alternative romanizations
>>>             in Hebraica Cataloging but only in regards to providing
>>>             alternative romanizations as references to Hebraica names.
>>>
>>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Heb-naco mailing list
>>>         Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu  <mailto:Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>>>         https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Heb-naco mailing list
>>         Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
>>         <mailto:Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>>         https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Bob Talbott
>>     Hebraica Cataloger
>>     UC Berkeley
>>     250 Moffitt
>>     Berkeley, CA 94720
>>
>>     We're happy as fish,
>>     as gorgeous as geese,
>>     and wonderfully clean in the morning.
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Heb-naco mailing list
>>     Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu  <mailto:Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>>     https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Heb-naco mailing list
>     Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
>     <mailto:Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>     https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
> https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osu.edu/pipermail/heb-naco/attachments/20131021/874b80d9/attachment.html>