[Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל

[Robert M. TALBOTT]

דריי = Drai = Dry as in Dry martini cocktail

B

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jasmin
> If דריי (three) is in Yiddish - shouldn't it be Dray?
>
> Yossi
>
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschlaeger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>>  Except that 'ai' is the romanization used for when the vocalization
>> preceding the yod is a patah; here the romanization preceding the yod is a
>> tsere.  ALA-LC romanization calls for 'e' in such cases.  So, yes, דריי is
>> Drai, but if you romanize קוקטייל as koktail, you imply that the two words
>> are rhymes, which they clearly are not.
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/2013 11:33 AM, Robert M. TALBOTT wrote:
>>
>> Folks:
>>
>> The way I would habve approached the data
>> 24510 [vernacular double yud form from tp]
>> 24510 Drai matini kotail
>> 2463  [vernacular single yud form from ESh
>> 2463  Drai martini koktel
>>
>> The reason why this is causing so much trouble is that in our
>> romanization scheme, double yud represents either "ai," the default form,
>> or a XyX where the yud has a degesh (I honestly can't think of any
>> instances where double yud represent a non-dageshed yud hauling a tsere or
>> a segol, but I could be wrong).  So, for my money the best way to treat
>> would be to transcribe what's on the piece according to usual practice
>> (koktail; add a [sic] if you're still using AACR2) and to add the ESh form
>> as an add title.
>>
>> My opnion is my own, and I defer to Those Who Know.
>>
>> Bob
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>  So in other words, I ought to add a 24633 for קוקטיל?
>>>
>>> On 10/21/2013 8:14 AM, Elhanan Adler wrote:
>>>
>>>  Fyi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Standard Israeli practice today is to add 24633s for title in alternate
>>> ketiv since, for example the reader usually has no idea if the dictionary
>>> he is looking for is titled
>>>
>>> מלון or מילון
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elhanan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elhanan Adler
>>>
>>> Email: elhanana at savion.huji.ac.il
>>>
>>> Mobile tel.: 972-54-6829657
>>>
>>> Tel. (home) 972-2-6515977
>>>
>>> Fax (home): 972-2-6517129
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [
>>> mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<heb-naco-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Jasmin Nof
>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 10:54 PM
>>> *To:* Heidi G Lerner; Jasmin Nof
>>> *Cc:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of קוקטייל
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ok, so i just fixed the 245 to koktel (with appropriate diacritics) and
>>> deleted the extraneous 246.  thanks for your prompt response!
>>>
>>> On 10/18/2013 3:45 PM, Heidi G Lerner wrote:
>>>
>>>  Oops,
>>> I read the e-mail too oquickly about the tsere. I was thinking that it
>>> appeared on the resource.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, to the best of my knowledge incorrect romanizations should not be as
>>> added in 246s. The LC-PCC PS for 2.3.6.3 offers guidelines and best
>>> practices for making variant titles for permutations related to the title
>>> proper. There is no discussion onrecording variant or incorrect
>>> transliterations (unless found somewhere on the resource). Maher discusses
>>> alternative romanizations in Hebraica Cataloging but only in regards to
>>> providing alternative romanizations as references to Hebraica names.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bob Talbott
>> Hebraica Cataloger
>> UC Berkeley
>> 250 Moffitt
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>
>> We're happy as fish,
>> as gorgeous as geese,
>> and wonderfully clean in the morning.
>>
>>
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-- 

Bob Talbott
Hebraica Cataloger
UC Berkeley
250 Moffitt
Berkeley, CA 94720

We're happy as fish,
as gorgeous as geese,
and wonderfully clean in the morning.
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