[Heb-NACO] בגלל

Thu Feb 7 17:31:43 EST 2019

So much needs to change, we have a life’s work ahead of us!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:30 PM
To: Galron, Joseph; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

So then why did we decide to change practice with the 10 words below? If we strive for accuracy and consistency, something needs to change. 

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 5:26 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

I checked  previous editions of ES and their also was a refrence to Gelal or Shevil
It is not a change from previous editions of the Dictionary.

I don’t agree that it is wrong.  I wouldn’t change it.

Yossi

From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 4:52 PM
To: Neil Manel Frau-Cortes <nfrau at umd.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

Folks:

I have to say that I'm in Yosi's camp. A vote for "bi-gelal" is a vote for sanity.

B 

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:23 PM Neil Manel Frau-Cortes via Heb-naco <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
I agree with Jasmin.

Neil

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 4:20 PM Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
I hear the concern, Yossi, but I’m afraid we’ve already started down the proverbial slope. Per the FAQ, we’ve agreed to romanize the words as

Bediʻavad
Bahem
Bilvad
Kaʻet
Kefi
Levad
Lemaʻan
Lefi
Mimeni
Sheli

No one can argue for Shvil since the sheva na’ at the beginning of a word requires it to be Shevil. No one can argue for Birushalayim because there is no E-Sh. entry for the compound.

So do I hear consensus on Biglal (and Bishvil – when it means “because/on behalf of”; otherwise bi/ba-shevil when it means “on a/the path)?

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:52 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

It is “dangerous” going to Biglal or Bishvil – tomorrow we will say: If it is Bishvil so why not change it to Shvil 
We also Romanize בירושלים  to “Bi-Yerushalayim” and not to “Birushalayim”

Yossi

From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:31 PM
To: Gottschalk, Haim <hgot at loc.gov>; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

Hi, Haim, bi-gelal would be correct if the ב is considered a prefix to the word גלל. But since there is a direct entry for the word as a whole, I’m asking if we should romanize it as a whole word instead of as a compound word.

Thanks, Jasmin

From: Gottschalk, Haim [mailto:hgot at loc.gov] 
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:24 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel'
Subject: RE: בגלל

I think it should be “biglal” and not “bi-gelal” because of the sheva being treat as a sheva nach (which is how it is in the Alcalay).  This is in my humble opinion.

~Haim

From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 11:00 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] בגלל

Hello Collective Wisdom, please remind me: if there’s an entry in E-Sh., even if it ends with a “see also”, is that sufficient justification for romanizing the word as a word as opposed to a compound? E.g. בגלל has a direct entry, so I’d think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says “see גלל”. So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?

Thanks, Jasmin

---
Jasmin Shinohara
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
University of Pennsylvania
Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
3420 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
T. 215-746-6397
jshino at upenn.edu

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Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D. (he, him, his)
Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger

University of Maryland
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Phone (301) 405-9337
nfrau at umd.edu
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