[Heb-NACO] moladeti or moladti

Wed Apr 25 13:46:16 EDT 2018

I do agree that "likateli" would be incorrect by all the rules. However,
even knowing that the Romanization rules usually disregard pronunciation, I
think the more we deviate from what a patron intuitively would type, the
less effective the system becomes. I have no solution for that. Perhaps
every time there is a major change in the system we'd do well polling a few
users for reactions. My two cents.

Neil

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Joan Biella <jbiella2632 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I vaguely remember LC endorsing “likateti” many years ago, in response to
> overwhelming public pressure—but there is no doubt at all that that
> romanization is “incorrect” by all the rules.  If examples still exist in
> the database, they really should be fixed!  My two cents.
>
> Joan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 25, 2018, at 3:59 AM, Janet Shamir <Janet.Shamir at nli.org.il> wrote:
>
> This problem occurs with all verbs that combine a root that ends with a
> Dalet and a suffix beginning with a Tav. Some examples:
>
> Avadti, bagadta, ra ʻadt, limadtem, nilkadten, etc.
>
> It is also common with roots ending with a Ṭet under the same
> circumstances:
>
> Liḳaṭti (and not liḳaṭeti!), shafaṭta, hibaṭtem, etc.
>
>
>
> Janet
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Janet Shamir
>
> Hebrew Cataloging Department
>
> National Library of Israel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+janet.shamir=nli.org.il at lists.
> osu.edu <heb-naco-bounces+janet.shamir=nli.org.il at lists.osu.edu>] *On
> Behalf Of *Shinohara, Jasmin
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:35 PM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] moladeti or moladti
>
>
>
> Great, Joan, I’ll add it to the list. Thanks, Jasmin
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu
> <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Joan Biella
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:22 PM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] moladeti or moladti
>
>
>
> A similar problem occurs with “hulad(e)ti.”  This could be added to the
> list, as an example of verbs with this combination of consonants.
>
>
>
> Joan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2018, at 7:17 AM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you, all, for weighing it. I’ve added the word to our romanization
> FAQ on the wiki
> <http://rascat.pbworks.com/w/page/109347700/Romanization%20FAQ> (and
> updated the printable version, too, also attached; may be worth a quick
> review. J)
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu
> <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Janet Shamir
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 12, 2018 2:30 AM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] moladeti or moladti
>
>
>
> It's a משקל סגולי. Treat the sheva as you would treat the sheva in words
> such as כַּלְבִּי or מַחְתַּרְתִּי: moladti.
>
> I'm assuming those who added the e did it instinctively, or thought it was
> a sheva na’ based on pronunciation + the segol under the dalet in מולדת.
>
> The dagesh in the tav is a good sign that the sheva is NOT na’, but with
> biblical words it's always better to double-check.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
> Janet Shamir
>
> Hebrew Cataloging Department
>
> National Library of Israel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+janet.shamir=nli.org.il at lists.
> osu.edu <heb-naco-bounces+janet.shamir=nli.org.il at lists.osu.edu>] *On
> Behalf Of *Shinohara, Jasmin
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 12, 2018 1:51 AM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* [Heb-NACO] moladeti or moladti
>
>
>
> I would think it’s the latter, but there are many records (PCC and DLC)
> with the former. There is a sheva under the dalet and the taf has a dagesh
> and a hirik (מוֹלַדְתִּי). As far as I can tell the sheva is not na’ (and
> if it’s merahef, it’s also disregarded per romanization rules), so then why
> the e after the d? We’ve long established that pronunciation is not the
> arbiter, the vocalization is, so what am I missing?
>
>
>
> Thanks, Jasmin
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Jasmin Shinohara
>
> Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
>
> University of Pennsylvania
>
> Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
>
> 3420 Walnut Street
>
> Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
>
> T. 215-746-6397
>
> jshino at upenn.edu
>
>
>
> <rom FAQ printable april_2018.docx>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>
>

-- 

*Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D. *(he, him, his)

Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger

University of Maryland

4109 McKeldin Library

College Park, MD 20742

Phone (301) 405-9337

nfrau at umd.edu

ORCID ID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1881-1405
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osu.edu/pipermail/heb-naco/attachments/20180425/5a43bb0a/attachment-0001.html>