[Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Thu Jul 6 12:06:26 EDT 2017

Yes, that was established in the HCM (even prior to this thread ☺).

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Yossi Galron
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:40 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Then is the question: (and I think it was already established) that if there is the fifth Hebrew letter ("He") it will be transcribed as an H with an optional 246 field.

Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
I don’t think that formulation is clear, Jerry Anne. Typically, where vowels are supplied, it is to indicate whether the Name should be pronounced as Ado-nai or as Elokim. To say “it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source” may imply using the YHṾH consonants with the addition of the supplied vowels, but those consonants are not (typically) intended to be pronounced. I think if the vocalization is given, that form (Ado-nai or Elokim) should be in the 245 with the addition of YHṾH in the 246.

My half cent. Jasmin

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bjshino>=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu<mailto:pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Dickel, Geraldine
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:17 AM
To: rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu<mailto:rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Good question.  If the vowels are supplied should the Tetragrammaton be Romanized with the vowels?

Should the HCM say: The unvocalized Tetragrammaton, יהוה, should be Romanized YHṾH.  If the Tetragrammaton is vocalized it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source.”

Thoughts?

Best,
Jerry Anne

From: Robert M. TALBOTT [mailto:rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu]
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2017 10:58 AM
To: Dickel, Geraldine <geraldine.dickel at yale.edu<mailto:geraldine.dickel at yale.edu>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Well, it's been lost in the dust up, but what about cases where vowels are supplied?  Or is the Tetragrammaton always YHVH in all instances, euphemistic added entries not with standing?

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Dickel, Geraldine <geraldine.dickel at yale.edu<mailto:geraldine.dickel at yale.edu>> wrote:
I have added: “The Tetragrammaton, יהוה, should be Romanized YHṾH.” to page 32 of the HCM under Names of the Divinity.  Jasmin has also added it to the Romanization FAQ document on the AJL RAS Cataloging wiki.

Thank you,
Jerry Anne

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+geraldine.dickel<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bgeraldine.dickel>=yale.edu at lists.osu.edu<mailto:yale.edu at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 5:31 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Thanks folks.

Is there any chance we could get a transliteration advisory covering this included in the HCM? 'Twould be quite handy for those few times it actually happens.

B

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Judith Zupnick <judiezup at msn.com<mailto:judiezup at msn.com>> wrote:

I agree with Joan.

________________________________
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+judiezup=msn.com at lists.osu.edu<mailto:msn.com at lists.osu.edu>> on behalf of Joan Biella <jbiella2632 at gmail.com<mailto:jbiella2632 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 1:39 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

I agree with Aaron, and would advocate for YHVH (subscript dot under V) as the least controversial way to deal with this situation.
Joan

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Kuperman, Aaron <akup at loc.gov<mailto:akup at loc.gov>> wrote:
Assuming there are no nekudot, would it not be presumptuous for a cataloger to claim to know how it would be pronounced.

Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section.
This is not an official communication from my employer

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+akup<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bakup>=loc.gov at lists.osu.edu<mailto:loc.gov at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 3:49 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh

Hi folks:

I'm cataloging a book right now that has the tetragrammaton in the title.

1) YHVH? This is what the record has
2) Yehovah? My preference
3) Yahveh? As good as any other
4) Or should we use a euphemism,e.g ha-Shem?

I'm not invested in this one and am agnostic as to the outcome, but which form is preferred? The euphemism 'ha-Shem" and "Adonai" are already slotted in the record as added title entries.

B
--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron

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--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron

--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

I'm just mad about Saffron

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