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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">Yes, that was established in the HCM (even prior to this thread
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:JA">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Yossi Galron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Then is the question: (and I think it was already established) that if there is the fifth Hebrew letter ("He") it will be transcribed as an H with an optional 246 field.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or
<a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgalron@gmail.com</a><br>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918<br>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: <a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank">
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t think that formulation is clear, Jerry Anne. Typically, where vowels are supplied, it is
to indicate whether the Name should be pronounced as Ado-nai or as Elokim. To say “it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source” may imply using the YHṾH consonants with the addition of the supplied vowels, but those consonants are not (typically)
intended to be pronounced. I think if the vocalization is given, that form (Ado-nai or Elokim) should be in the 245 with the addition of YHṾH in the 246.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My half cent. Jasmin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bjshino" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+jshino</a>=<a href="mailto:pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dickel, Geraldine<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 06, 2017 11:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Good question. If the vowels are supplied should the Tetragrammaton be Romanized with the vowels?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Should the HCM say: The unvocalized Tetragrammaton,
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">יהוה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>,
should be Romanized YHṾH. If the Tetragrammaton is vocalized it should be Romanized with the vowels as given in the source.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thoughts?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jerry Anne</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Robert M. TALBOTT [<a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 06, 2017 10:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dickel, Geraldine <<a href="mailto:geraldine.dickel@yale.edu" target="_blank">geraldine.dickel@yale.edu</a>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Well, it's been lost in the dust up, but what about cases where vowels are supplied? Or is the Tetragrammaton always YHVH in all instances, euphemistic added entries not with standing?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Dickel, Geraldine <<a href="mailto:geraldine.dickel@yale.edu" target="_blank">geraldine.dickel@yale.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I have added: “The Tetragrammaton,
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">יהוה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>,
should be Romanized YHṾH.” to page 32 of the HCM under Names of the Divinity. Jasmin has also added it to the Romanization FAQ document on the AJL RAS Cataloging wiki.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jerry Anne</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bgeraldine.dickel" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+geraldine.dickel</a>=<a href="mailto:yale.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">yale.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 05, 2017 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks folks.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Is there any chance we could get a transliteration advisory covering this included in the HCM? 'Twould be quite handy for those few times it actually happens.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">B<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Judith Zupnick <<a href="mailto:judiezup@msn.com" target="_blank">judiezup@msn.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I agree with Joan.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco
<heb-naco-bounces+judiezup=<a href="mailto:msn.com@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">msn.com@lists.osu.edu</a>> on behalf of Joan Biella <<a href="mailto:jbiella2632@gmail.com" target="_blank">jbiella2632@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 5, 2017 1:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I agree with Aaron, and would advocate for YHVH (subscript dot under V) as the least controversial way to deal with this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Joan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Kuperman, Aaron <<a href="mailto:akup@loc.gov" target="_blank">akup@loc.gov</a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Assuming there are no nekudot, would it not be presumptuous for a cataloger to claim to know how
it would be pronounced.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This is not an official communication from my employer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Heb-naco
[mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bakup" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces+akup</a>=<a href="mailto:loc.gov@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">loc.gov@lists.osu.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 05, 2017 3:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] Transliterating yud heh vav heh</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi folks:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I'm cataloging a book right now that has the tetragrammaton in the title. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">1) YHVH? This is what the record has</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">2) Yehovah? My preference</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">3) Yahveh? As good as any other</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">4) Or should we use a euphemism,e.g ha-Shem? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I'm not invested in this one and am agnostic as to the outcome, but which form is preferred? The euphemism 'ha-Shem"
and "Adonai" are already slotted in the record as added title entries.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">B<br>
-- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
250 Moffitt<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720<br>
<br>
I'm just mad about Saffron<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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