[Heb-NACO] Nokhehim? Nokhhim?

Tue Apr 18 12:00:20 EDT 2017

The work of an LC/ALA romanized is little understood or appreciated.  A hard but well-known truth.

Joan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 18, 2017, at 8:57 AM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> just for the fun of it - there are 27 records in OCLC with Nokhehim and 0 records with Nokhhim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
> Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Heidi G Lerner <lerner at stanford.edu> wrote:
>> Bob, I agree with you. I just re-checked and examples are found on p. 17-18 of the current edition (found online at file:///C:/Users/lerner/Downloads/HCM%20RDA%20guide%20(8).pdf).
>> 
>> 
>> So, yes I think that it should be "nokhhim" odd as it looks and sounds.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Heidi G. Lerner
>> 
>> Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica
>> 
>> Metadata Dept.
>> 
>> Stanford University Libraries
>> 
>> Stanford, CA 94305-6004
>> 
>> ph: 650-725-9953
>> 
>> fax: 650-725-1120
>> 
>> e-mail: lerner at stanford.edu
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Robert M. TALBOTT <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:28 AM
>> 
>> To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Nokhehim? Nokhhim?
>>  
>> I'm not sure I understand.  From what I've gleaned from Maher, when a sheva falls under a consonant that follows a vowel, it's understood as a sheva nah as far as our romanization scheme goes, thus "nokhhim." 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 7:56 AM, Heidi G Lerner <lerner at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>> We have historically provided a simple rule for romanizing Hebrew because we cannot assume that all Hebraica catalogers who are required to romanize have a strong background in דקדוק.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> And that rule, encoded in two editions of Hebraica cataloging is to follow the vocalization in the most recent edition of Even-Shoshan and Alkalay. Both of these dictionaries have a "sheva" under the "כ". Thus we do as Yossi says we do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "nokheḥut".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Heidi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Heidi G. Lerner
>>> 
>>> Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica
>>> 
>>> Metadata Dept.
>>> 
>>> Stanford University Libraries
>>> 
>>> Stanford, CA 94305-6004
>>> 
>>> ph: 650-725-9953
>>> 
>>> fax: 650-725-1120
>>> 
>>> e-mail: lerner at stanford.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Joan Biella <jbiella2632 at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:31 PM
>>> To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
>>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Nokhehim? Nokhhim?
>>>  
>>> Yossi knows us well.  I don't think you'll find a rule in the HCM even now that would justify an /e/ between the khaf and the het, no matter how they have to be pronounced.
>>> 
>>> Joan
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Bob,
>>>> Hebrew is a living language. I don't know the grammatical rule (Sheva na? Sheva merahef?), but modern Hebrew speakers are saying Nokhehim. Try to pronounce two Khaf or  Het sounds without a vowel between them.
>>>> I know my answer will not satisfy you. Maybe someone on the list will be more satisfying. 
>>>> Happy Passover/Easter 
>>>> Yossi
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2017 21:10, "Robert M. TALBOTT" <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:23 PM, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Nohekhim.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2017 18:22, "Robert M. TALBOTT" <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Folks:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Does נוכחים follow the pattern of lomdim (nokh[dot]him) or the pattern of mitpalelim (mokhe[dot]him)?  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Bob Talbott
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> UC Berkeley
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 250 Moffitt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm just mad about Saffron
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Heb-naco mailing list
>>>>>>> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
>>>>>>> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Bob Talbott
>>>>> 
>>>>> Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger
>>>>> 
>>>>> UC Berkeley
>>>>> 
>>>>> 250 Moffitt
>>>>> 
>>>>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm just mad about Saffron
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Heb-naco mailing list
>>>>> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
>>>>> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Bob Talbott
>> 
>> Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger
>> 
>> UC Berkeley
>> 
>> 250 Moffitt
>> 
>> Berkeley, CA 94720
>> 
>> I'm just mad about Saffron
>> 
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>> Heb-naco mailing list
>> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
>> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
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> 
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