[Heb-NACO] Admor Shelita as a cross reference for Hassidic Rebbes

Wed Oct 7 15:25:21 EDT 2015

Heidi,

I don't think this rule applies here. Admor is not a characterizing word or phrase. It is not unique to any specific person. It is a title or honorific, like rabbi, or Rav, etc. There are hundreds of admorim. As Aaron say, if he's called the "Admor from X, Y, or Z," that's a different story.  But making Admor as a see reference for anyone doesn't make sense. It would be like using "Rabbi" as a heading.

Barry

Barry Dov Walfish, Ph.D.
Judaica Specialist
University of Toronto Libraries
Toronto, ON M5S 1A5
Canada
________________________________
From: Heb-naco [heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] on behalf of Heidi G Lerner [lerner at stanford.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 2:32 PM
To: heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Admor Shelita as a cross reference for Hassidic Rebbes

I do not think that including "Sheliṭa' as part of a heading or cross-reference makes any sense, because as Miriam points out sheliṭa means " he should live to the length of good days amen." This kind of phrase is not used in RDA for constructing authorized access points. And, as she points out is very misleading when you include a death date.

However, I disagree about using not "Admor" as the basis of an authorized access point, even if we don't have dates available and we don't need to differentiate. It is used as a title for a Hasidic rabbi and it also can be considered a phrase.  If we look at RDA 9.2.2.5

Characterizing Word or Phrase
If a person is commonly identified by a characterizing word or phrase in resources associated with the person and in reference sources, consider this word or phrase to be the preferred name for the person. Record the word or phrase by applying the general guidelines on recording names at 8.5[http://access.rdatoolkit.org/images/rdalink.png]<http://access.rdatoolkit.org/document.php?id=rdachp8&target=rda8-257#rda8-257>.
Record the phrase in direct order.

This rule appears to apply to Admor if we look at the examples provided. We would have to find a way to distinguish this heading further if "Admor" has been established already without any additions to the heading and another Admor is created as a heading or cross-reference.

Best, Heidi

Heidi G. Lerner

Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica

Metadata Dept.

Stanford University Libraries

Stanford, CA 94305-6004

ph: 650-725-9953

fax: 650-725-1120

e-mail: lerner at stanford.edu

________________________________
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Kuperman, Aaron <akup at loc.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2015 10:57 AM
To: heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Admor Shelita as a cross reference for Hassidic Rebbes

They are honorifics, similar to “Mr.” or “The honorable”  or  “H.R.H.” or “Ph.D.” or “Esq.”

Do we normally include honorifics in name authorities?

Exception, if someone is known as the “Admor mi-?????”, so wouldn’t we treat it the way we treat any other name.

Whomever but “Admor shelitah” in a 400 doesn’t understand.

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+akup=loc.gov at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Miriam Gloger
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 2:35 PM
To: heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
Subject: [Heb-NACO] Admor Shelita as a cross reference for Hassidic Rebbes

The term Admor Shelita אדמו"ר שליט"א (Adoni, mori v.e-rabi she-yih.yeh le-orekh yamim t.ovim amen --

my master, teacher, and Rabbi, he should live to the length of good days amen)

is kind of like saying his excellency, or his holiness -- it is an honorific typically used for Hassidic Rebbes.  In some cases it is used somewhat correctly as Admor of a place/Congregation

but even in those cases, it probably should have dates because Hassidic groups/communities are dynastic so that there are 1) often several generations of Admor mi-(name the city) 2) in some cases like Satmar, Bobov, Vizhnitz, there are splits, -- so that there are 2 Admor mi-(name the group) at a time writing about the same subject!

Below are a few examples of usage with and without a date.  In the second record Shelita $c Admor makes absolutely no sense.

ARN 6015791

010  nr2003011259

040  DLC-R ǂb eng ǂc DLC-R ǂd OCoLC

1001 Horoṿits, Shemuʼel Tsevi

4000 Admor Sheliṭa

4001 אדמו״ר שליטא

4001 הורוויץ, שמואל צבי

667  Machine-derived non-Latin script reference project.

667  Non-Latin script references not evaluated.

670  Sefer Shivḥe Tehilim, 2000: ǂb t.p. (Maran Admor, sheliṭa) p. 32 (author of Ṭava di-Shemuʼel)

670  RLIN, 31 Mar. 2003 ǂb (hdg.: Horoṿits, Shemuʼel Tsevi; author of Ṭava di-Shemuʼel)

ARN 9989794

010  no2014136816

040  CSt-HC ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc CSt-HC ǂd DLC

1001 Wassertheil, Chaim Elazar

4000 Admor Sheliṭa, ǂd active 2014

4001 אדמו״ר שליט״א

4001 Sheliṭa, ǂc Admor, ǂd active 2014

4001 שליט״א, אדמו״ר

4001 Ṿasserṭhail, Ḥayim Elʻazar

4001 וואססערטהייל, חיים אלעזר

4000 Admor, ǂc mi-Rimanov

667  Non-Latin script reference not evaluated.

670  Sefer Ḳedushat Shabat: ǂb title page (Admor Sheliṭa)

670  Wikipedia, viewed Oct. 9, 2014 ǂb (Rimenov (Hasidic dynatsty; Rabbi Chaim Elazar Wassertheil, rabbi of "Beeras Hamayim" in Borough Bark, Brookyn)

670  National Library of Israel authority file, viewed online Oct. 9, 2014 ǂb (hdg.:וואסערטהייל, חיים אלעזר =  Ṿasserṭhail, Ḥayim ʻElʻazar; xref: אדמו״ר מרימנוב (בורו פארק = Admor mi-Rimanov (Boro Parḳ))

--

Miriam Gloger

Librarian II  Database Management Team (CMA)

(917) 229-9575

The New York Public Library - BookOps

Library Services Center

31-11 Thomson Ave

Long Island City, NY 11101-3006
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