[Heb-NACO] Romanization: ayin lamed zayin vav zayin

Tue May 14 16:43:48 EDT 2013

Holy smokes.  Thank you Jasmin, Manuel, and Heidi.

Yes, I have been leaning Elzozishly myself.  I discovered a historical
atlas this morning (Atlas histori shel am Yisrael / Y. Shapira (in multiple
editions)) that kindly includes vowel points and sure enough, on the map
showing Jewish settlements in Germany during the Crusades, Elzas (אלזס with
a segol and a patah) is written right where it should be.

I'm going to poke around a bit more before I commit, but if I find anything
definitive, I'll announce with great fanfare.

Cheers

B

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:17 PM, Jasmin Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> wrote:

>  my colleague at umd (where i fondly recall having access to (אנציקלופדיה
> העברית was able to find the information below.  thanks, neil!  hope it's
> helpful, bob.  thank goodness for the 246!
>
> best wishes and חג שמח, jasmin
>
> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: RE: Re: [Heb-NACO]
> Romanization: ayin lamed zayin vav zayin  Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:05:57
> +0000  From: Manuel Frau-Cortes <nfrau at umd.edu> <nfrau at umd.edu>  To: Jasmin
> Nof <jnof at upenn.edu> <jnof at upenn.edu>
>
>  Hi,****
>
> ** **
>
> עלזוז doesn’t appear in the Entsiklopedyah. I looked for versions of
> Alsace, but both are spelled with aleph, that is אלזס and אלזאס, the last
> one being the Yiddish regular spelling. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The only reference I found to עלזוז anywhere is in this book: ****
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=OQUVAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA1357&lpg=PA1357&dq=%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%96%D7%95%D7%96&source=bl&ots=DkmFQimX0z&sig=kqukmhC2wlSZb2dZIrAhJNgJxII&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BYmSUdnQKdHh4AOx44HADw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%D7%91%D7%A2%D7%9C%D7%96%D7%95%D7%96&f=false
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> As you can see, it relates Elzuz with Kolmar. Since Colmar is in fact in
> Alsace, it is safe to say that Elzuz is Alsace. A possible linguistic
> explanation of this strange spelling is that in fact in Alsatian dialect,
> the place is pronounced Elsas, with open E (like in *bed*) and open A
> (like in *palm*). See in Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> Therefore, one could romanize it as 'Elzoz.****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> *Neil M. Frau-Cortes*
>
> ****
>
> Hebraica Cataloger****
>
> McKeldin Library****
>
> University of Maryland
> College Park, MD 20742
> Phone (301) 405-9337****
>
> nfrau at umd.edu****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Jasmin Nof [mailto:jnof at upenn.edu <jnof at upenn.edu>]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:50 PM
> *To:* Manuel Frau-Cortes
> *Subject:* Fwd: Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanization: ayin lamed zayin vav zayin***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> hi there, sadly penn moved its אנציקלופדיה העברית to offsite storage many
> years ago <snif>, but i fondly remember using the encyclopedia set that was
> on the first floor in the reference stacks (ae30.e5).  do you mind going to
> check if there's an entry for עלזוז, and if so, how it's vocalized?
>
> thanks and best wishes for a חג שמח!  jasmin  ****
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message -------- ****
>
> *Subject: *
>
> Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanization: ayin lamed zayin vav zayin****
>
> *Date: *
>
> Tue, 14 May 2013 10:26:35 -0700****
>
> *From: *
>
> Heidi G Lerner <lerner at stanford.edu> <lerner at stanford.edu>****
>
> *Reply-To: *
>
> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu><heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
> ****
>
> *To: *
>
> <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu> <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>, Hebrew
> Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu><heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Off-hand I cannot think of an Hebrew-language gazetters for places outside
> of Israel but it might appear in אנציקלופדיה העברית which may have
> vocalized headings. I don't have it readily accessible but I am sure that
> one of our safranim colleagues will have a copy at hand.
>
> Also you can check Atlas le-toldot am Yisrael (1965)
>
> Good luck, Heidi
>
>
> ****
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Robert M. TALBOTT" <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu><rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>
> *To: *"Hebrew Name Authority Funnel"
> <heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu><heb-naco at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:59:32 AM
> *Subject: *[Heb-NACO] Romanization: ayin lamed zayin vav zayin****
>
> Folks:****
>
> A pair of queries:****
>
> 1)  I have a sad little seder selihot here at my desk and it purports to
> be ke-minhag [ayin lamed zayin vav zayin].  One the one hand, I'm pretty
> sure that string of letters refers to Alsace.  On the other, I can only
> guess at how it's vocalized.  OCLC has "Elzuz" but I suspect this is not
> the 'droid I was looking for.  Please, if you have clue (and you just
> might!) let me know before I have to guess.****
>
> 2) Hebrew language gazetteers for a place other than Israel.  Surely they
> must exist.  If anyone has a recommendation, I'd be grateful.****
>
> Cheers****
>
> B
> ****
>
>
> -- ****
>
> Bob Talbott****
>
> Hebraica Cataloger****
>
> UC Berkeley****
>
> 250 Moffitt****
>
> Berkeley, CA 94720****
>
> ** **
>
> We're happy as fish,****
>
> as gorgeous as geese,****
>
> and wonderfully clean in the morning.****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
>

-- 

Bob Talbott
Hebraica Cataloger
UC Berkeley
250 Moffitt
Berkeley, CA 94720

We're happy as fish,
as gorgeous as geese,
and wonderfully clean in the morning.
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