[Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup
Stuart N. Clarke
stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com
Tue Jul 14 04:57:56 EDT 2020
I thought I would look up the previous translator, Paula Maria Rosas, "Momentos de vida” (Rio de Janeiro, Nova_Fronteira, 1986), p. 146:
O preceptor teve de pedir desculpas quando escolheu outro garoto, em vez dele, para ser chefe do dormitório; ele não ia deixar que lhe tomassem o lugar.
The Pup had to apologise when he put another boy over him as head of the house; he was not going to be passed over.
“O preceptor” is a jolly good stab (I hardly knew what preceptor meant in English, and I assume the Portuguese word is not used very frequently); but “chefe do dormitório” doesn’t seem right.
I have also had a look at the Spanish, transl. Andrés Bosch, "Momentos de vida” (Editorial_Lumen (Palabra en el Tiempo, 136), Barcelona, 1980), pp. 158-9. Spanish is more of a struggle for me, but it seems as if that sentence at least is omitted. Why, I wonder . . .
Stuart
(Day 119)
From: Stuart N. Clarke
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:56 PM
To: Stuart N. Clarke ; vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup
Podem chama-me “o Cachorrinho”
From: Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 5:18 PM
To: vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup
This is a very interesting question. I’m fairly (not 100%) sure I’ve got the answer right.
It appears to have been the nickname of W. W. Asquith, “brother of the future Prime Minister (known because of his sarcastic tongue as “the Pup”—but Frank came to like him)”. This I found using Google Books (bio. of Francis Younghusband), but I can’t see any more online. Anyway, Thoby was in Asquith’s (boarding) House at Clifton College.
I haven’t quite grasped why a sarcastic tongue would result in someone being called a ‘pup’. The closest I can spot in the OED is
A young man, esp. one who is stupid, arrogant, or unpleasant.Stuart
(Day 118)
From: Carol Mesquita via Vwoolf
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 4:37 PM
To: vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
Subject: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup
Dear all,
Hope you are all safe and well.
I am translating "A Sketch of the Past" into Brazilian Portuguese and came across a term that seemed obscure to me. The passage in which it appears is about Thoby:
He held his own, he put up with disagreeables; he was far more philosophic, because more in his element than Adrian was. And he exacted his rights. The Pup had to apologise when he put another boy over him as head of the house; he was not going to be passed over. (Harcourt, 1985, p. 126.)
I could not find what, or who, "the Pup" is. If anybody could help, that would be great. I thank you in advance!
Best regards,
Ana Carolina Mesquita
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:41 PM <vwoolf-request at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Woolf sighting (K L Levenback)
2. really obscure Elizabethan reference (Elisa Sparks)
3. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)
4. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)
5. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (Rebecca Duncan)
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:30:20 -0400
From: "K L Levenback" <kllevenback at att.net>
To: "" <vwoolf at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: [Vwoolf] Woolf sighting
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>From yet another sharp-eyed friend:
I just saw this: "But the spirit of the characters seems most apparent to me in her 2012 picture book, Virginia Wolf?illustrated by Isabelle Arsenault?a storybook fantasia on the childhood relationship between Vanessa Stephen and her sister Virginia, who would one day be known as Virginia Woolf. It begins, not unlike Frog and Toad are Friends, with Virginia nestled in bed, refusing to get out. Vanessa narrates, ?One day my sister Virginia woke up feeling wolfish.?":
https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html [https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html]
?
Hope you are having a happy 4th!
Seconding the above--
Karen Levenback
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 00:34:22 +0000
From: Elisa Sparks <sparks at clemson.edu>
To: "vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
<vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference
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<MWHPR06MB332860B52270FA1939BE9704DD660 at MWHPR06MB3328.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
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Dear all--
I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on an Elizabethan Play":
and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)
Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing here? I am at an utter loss.
Thanks,
Elisa
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:45:48 -0400
From: coruscate818 <coruscate818 at gmail.com>
To: Elisa Sparks <sparks at clemson.edu>
Cc: "vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
<vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference
Message-ID:
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Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
wrote:
> Dear all--
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on
> an Elizabethan Play":
>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)
>
>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing
> here? I am at an utter loss.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elisa
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwoolf mailing list
> Vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:51:39 -0400
From: coruscate818 <coruscate818 at gmail.com>
To: Elisa Sparks <sparks at clemson.edu>
Cc: "vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
<vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference
Message-ID:
<CANqcSJrLpgpxKgnUivWJNosgSMiqLWDgzhFR2=m4aLuEz63jVg at mail.gmail.com>
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But I think Google Books
<https://books.google.com/books?id=CF9SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=owl+in+the+ivy+elizabethan+play&source=bl&ots=apbWGROF36&sig=ACfU3U2EfEcNJFk7UiOP-t0Hbuj6nV1wkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwififyX9bnqAhXxknIEHfIQAoEQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=ivy&f=false>
has the answer: John Marston's Histriomastix or The Player Whipped.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:45 PM coruscate818 <coruscate818 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <
> vwoolf at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear all--
>> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of
>> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary
>> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's
>> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on
>> an Elizabethan Play":
>>
>> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight
>> who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian
>> Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy
>> and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4
>> 67)
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is
>> citing here? I am at an utter loss.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Elisa
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Vwoolf mailing list
>> Vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
>> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf
>>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 22:40:29 -0400
From: Rebecca Duncan <duncanr at meredith.edu>
To: Elisa Sparks <sparks at clemson.edu>
Cc: "vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
<vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference
Message-ID:
<CAM_67cFxiYzheqLxSq4aOnBmjJaE-XM3kGqHD0vAy1prHdyZzQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>From a colleague:
So more research is necessary, but I think that there were a few plays
about the Duke of Savoy that might contain the right references. They?re
not Elizabethan though; they?re Carolinian. I?ll see if I can find a text
of Davenant?s Love and Honor and Shirley?s The Grateful Servant. Pepys
wrote about both, I think, and Woolf would have read Pepys?
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
wrote:
> Dear all--
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on
> an Elizabethan Play":
>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)
>
>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing
> here? I am at an utter loss.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elisa
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Vwoolf mailing list
> Vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf
>
--
Dr. Rebecca Duncan
Professor, English
*Meredith College*
Raleigh, NC
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--
Ana Carolina Mesquita
tel: + 55 11 99269.7778
skype: anacarol.mesquita
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