[Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
Sarah M. Hall
smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk
Thu Oct 24 12:05:10 EDT 2013
Nice one, Stuart.
VWSGB member Vanessa Curtis told me that in one of her books about VW, the copy editor changed 'Saxon Sydney-Turner' to 'Sydney Saxon-Turner' because she 'knew for a fact' that it was this way round. I thought at the time, just Google it, why don't you? I was an editor then, but didn't work for her publisher, unfortunately.
>________________________________
> From: Stuart N. Clarke <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
>To: "list', 'woolf" <VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2013, 16:50
>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>
>
>
>Re:
>Madame de Sévigné, here is an anecdote about an English
edition of her letters:
>
>When the galley proofs began to reach the editor, he
found that the proof-reader had his own idea of how to spell Madame de Sévigné’s
name, for he kept querying the accent on the first syllable. The editor meticulously wrote ‘stet’
beside each query; but with the next batch of proofs the process of query and
‘stet’ began all over again. When
finally the page proofs arrived and the persistent proof-reader was still
querying the accent, the editor lost his patience. Addressing himself to the proof-reader
on the margin of the proof, he demanded that this futile exercise should
stop. But now it was the printer’s
turn. When the editor at last
received an advance copy of the book, he was horrified to find in the middle of
one of Madame de Sévigné’s letters the very words that he had written in anger
on the final proof: ‘For God’s sake, stop
popping up between Madame de Sévigné and me!’[1]
>
>
>>________________________________
>
>[1]John Sutherland, The Oxford Book of Literary Anecdotes (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1975), 351.
>From: Jeremy Hawthorn
>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:04 PM
>To: list', 'woolf
>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of
"principal"
>
>I
had an in-house copy editor for a major publisher alter "hers" and "theirs" to
"her's" and "their's". Fortunately I was producing camera-ready copy, so was
able just to ignore these "corrections".
>
>To give credit where credit is
due, however, my experience is that some copy editors are extremely good, and
some have certainly have saved me from some major embarrassments.
>
>There
is a category of problems that relates to different national usages and
conventions - as with alternate and alternative (UK and US).
>
>Jeremy
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] on behalf of ANNE Fernald
[Staff/Faculty [A&S]] [fernald at fordham.edu]
>Sent: 24 October 2013
15:48
>To: Diana Swanson
>Cc: list', 'woolf
>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>
>
>appallingly copyedited.
>
>
>I cannot write without erring.
>
>All apologies.
>
>
>
>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:48 AM, ANNE Fernald
[Staff/Faculty [A&S]] <fernald at fordham.edu> wrote:
>
>Seven years ago, my book was appallingly copyediting, outsourced to India (where language rules differ from American or British usage). Since then, I've despaired of the kind of care that one used to rely on. I make many errors. I couldn't get any writing done at all if I were super persnickety with myself whilst drafting. Unfortunately, errors made while composing tend to persist, and there is no longer a stage where one can rely on an editor.
>>
>>My father is a retired tax lawyer. He made his living catching tiny details. I now rely on him to catch my (many) errors and infelicities.
>>
>>We all should be so lucky.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Diana Swanson <dswanson at niu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I have noticed more and more such mistakes in scholarly books and text books over the last few years; I think that publishers have laid off too many editors and copy-editors. The causes? Probably in large part the consolidation of publishing companies, the pressure for quarterly profits, and the cutting of university budgets (especially state universities) so that university presses are being starved of funds.
>>>
>>>>>> Mark Hussey <mhussey at verizon.net> 10/24/2013 8:25 AM >>>
>>>
>>>"Too fussy" might be a euphemism for "able to use words correctly."
>>>
>>>From:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah M. Hall
>>>Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:40 AM
>>>To: Stuart N. Clarke; woolf list
>>>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>>>
>>>There was an interview on Radio 4 yesterday with a Scotsman who thinks that we are all too fussy about English grammar, and that phrases such as 'most beautifullest' are quite acceptable because Shakespeare used these constructions. The opposing view was that Shakespeare was writing poetry. Downward spiral?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>
>>>>From:Stuart N. Clarke <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
>>>>To: woolf list <VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2013, 11:33
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>>>>
>>>>Of course, we all make mistakes, but there's just no end to failures in copy-editing.
>>>>
>>>>There's something just not quite right about:
>>>>
>>>>"This great church ... is crowned by the second largest Roman dome after St Peter's."
>>>>
>>>>In his TV show, Dave Gorman pointed out the faux spectrum, as in something like "She has taken all the great tragic roles, from Ophelia to the Duchess of Malfi".
>>>>
>>>>Stuart
>>>>
>>>>From:Jeremy Hawthorn
>>>>Sent:Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:17 AM
>>>>To:Stuart N. Clarke ; woolf list
>>>>Subject:Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>>>>
>>>>And another one. In the last week I have seen "interred" used where "interned" was correct, and vice-versa. Thus people of Japanese descent were interred during WW2, and the body was interned after the funeral.
>>>>
>>>>Jeremy
H
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>
>>>>From:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] on behalf of Stuart N. Clarke [stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com]
>>>>Sent: 24 October 2013 11:51
>>>>To: woolf list
>>>>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>>>>The 2 words are quite different, but I admit that I have to concentrate when typing them to make sure I've chosen the right one! I don't think they have (yet?) become interchangeable.
>>>>
>>>>Unlike "imply" and "infer": in the Antipodes, even in scientific papers, the words are used interchangeably, although I was surprised to find the use as early as 1931, e.g.:
>>>>
>>>>M. H. C., 'The Scheme of Things', NZ Evening Post, Vol. CXII, No. 112 (7 November 1931), 9: '"Oxbridge" . plainly infers [sic] Oxford'; http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19311107.2.40.1
>>>>
>>>>Stuart
>>>>
>>>>From:Sunjoo Lee
>>>>Sent:Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:38 AM
>>>>To:woolf list
>>>>Subject:[Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"
>>>>
>>>>Hi, everyone,
>>>>
>>>>I have been a bit bugged by seeing "principle" when the word has to be "principal."
>>>>I saw that happening in doctoral dissertations and (in a few cases) articles from well-known journals, or even books from good publishers.
>>>>
>>>>And this afternoon, from Heidegger's Kant and the Problem of Metaphysics (Indiana UP, 1997), I found:
>>>>
>>>>"Thus the knowledge of beings in general (Metaphysica Generalis) and the knowledge of its principle divisions (Metaphysica Specialis) become a "science established on the basis of mere reason."" (6).
>>>>
>>>>And now I wonder, has "principle" been accepted as an alternate spelling of "principal"? Only I haven't been aware of it?
>>>>Dictionaries I use don't have such information. Has anyone else wondered about this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sunjoo
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>>
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mailing list
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>Anne E. Fernald
>>Director of Writing/Composition at Lincoln Center,
>>Associate Professor of English and Women's Studies
>>Fordham University
>>113 W 60th St.
>>New York NY 10023
>>
>>212/636-7613
>>fernald at fordham.edu
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>Anne E. Fernald
>Director of Writing/Composition at Lincoln
Center,
>Associate Professor of English and Women's Studies
>Fordham University
>113 W 60th St.
>New York NY 10023
>
>212/636-7613
>fernald at fordham.edu
>
>
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