[Vwoolf] Speculative recuperations of Woolf's suicide

[Steve Posin]

Brava Anne.  Well said

Sent via IPhone
Steve Posin


On Jun 16, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Anne-Marie Lindsey <amtonyan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Here's where I have to jump in to back up Brenda; I left official Woolf scholarship in part because I was not handling my mental illness during graduate school. I am uncomfortable with comparisons to periscopes and references to mythology. I am not comfortable with the idea that suicide is poetry or poetic and beautifully mysterious. Mental illness really is what Woolf talked about in her last letter, and we all know that most attempts at treating her mental illness had been utter failures. It's not romantic; it's horrific. We cannot get inside her head, and we have no reason to assume that she did not tell Leonard the truth in her letter. Yes, there is context. Fear and anxiety were major components of Woolf's illness, and the threat of a Nazi invasion is not exactly conducive to calm.
> 
> All the same, mental illness in general and suicidal thoughts or plans are medical issues. It does us all a disservice to romanticize suicide. There is nothing romantic about coming to the conclusion that the only way to make it stop, whether it's hearing voices or grief or anxiety, is to end one's own life. I know from personal experience that it most often takes careful treatment by doctors who are well-trained to bring anyone back from that place. We do not do anyone any good by holding up Woolf (or Plath) as having met romantic ends. I remember learning that Woolf was a good swimmer, and that it must have taken enormous will power not to fight drowning. Maybe that sounds romantic to someone, but it sounds truly terrifying to me. My point is that Woolf's suicide is biographical event that resulted from a horrifically painful mental illness. It is not a statement about politics or The Abyss or World War II. When she wanted to make statements, she did so in writing. I want to see classrooms and texts present her suicide as the result of a mental illness without either shaming that illness or romanticizing it. 
> 
> Anne-Marie
> 
> On Jun 16, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Laurie Reiche wrote:
> 
>> Do I dare jump into this brilliant conversation, being nobody really except an unknown poet/writer who is a Woolf worshipper and new to speaking in this company of Woolf scholars? Well, of course, I'm going to take the leap, if only to say this: the reasons for Woolf's suicide (or anybody's for that matter) was, obviously, an accumulation of multifaceted anguishes. One emotional, psychological, political, or physical event usually won't be the trigger propelling one to choose to die. Can you imagine (I suppose we could never) being a fly on the wall of Woolf's brain and listening in on the conversations taking place in her mind---not the thoughts she wrote in her diaries but the one's she couldn't catch in her net of words---during the months before she died? I imagine (having felt suicidal depression myself over the many long years of my life) her brilliant mind being like a periscope observing the whole vast and tumultuous sea of existence, making notes, philosophical declarations, artistic comments, political utterances while simultaneously noticing her own body and the way it, too, was reacting to her thoughts: nerves pitching upward or plummeting down---Thantos luring her into the darkness at the same time as Eros (all the loves in her life and passions) beckoning her to stay in the light of life? I don't know if I'm making myself understood? I'm just trying to say that Woolf's reasons for suicide cannot be fully understood; finding one particular factor is wrongheaded. Anyway, I don't think she'd approve of us taking one path to understanding her motivation! She was a multifaceted gem of a woman and her death was a reflection of that blinding (?) complexity and---yes---effulgence. But her suicide can't help but make me think of Paul Celan's---so many years after the Holocaust---throwing himself into the Seine; or Plath's ritualistic toying with death---every ten years trying it then finally losing the roulette game---and the reasons? Always so many…and always so mysterious. I wrote a poem a while back called "Points and Slopes" which was, literally, a portrait of Woolf. The last two lines of the sonnet sums up the conundrum we face when trying to understand her suicide, (and her life:) "...What do your eyes see that your mouth does not?/Such pain in the glass of your eyes or is that light gladness?" 
>> Warmly,
>> Laurie Lessen Reiche
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2012, at 9:20 AM, Brenda Helt wrote:
>> 
>>> This is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about.  Woolf was specific in her suicide letter as to why she took her life, and when her contemporaries began to hypothesize that she committed suicide because she feared Nazi invasion etc, Leonard quoted the letter publicly in order to stop that nonsense—which it seems to me is an unfortunate thing to have to do when your partner has just died.  Mental illness is the main reason most people commit suicide, and it’s why Woolf committed suicide.  She specifically said so and did not mention other reasons.  The “carefully considered choice” is just another form of the romantic madwoman (or genius) throwing herself into the abyss—an attempt to recuperate as “altruistic” something that is the result of mental illness.  That is a dangerous direction for Woolf scholars to go, in my opinion, because we seem then to throw the weight of our authority as Woolf scholars (and teachers/professors) behind a recuperative attitude towards suicide that does not encourage our students, readers, or audience members who might be fascinated with her suicide because they themselves contemplate suicide to get the medical help they need.  I think we would have been better off to have another thirty or so years of writing from Woolf; her suicide ranks as one of those horrible things that happens in life that it’s too bad Leonard or someone didn’t see coming and manage to stop.  I can’t recuperate it.  I wouldn’t want to try.  And I prefer the facts.
>>>  
>>> Brenda Helt, PhD
>>>  
>>> From: vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of jeannette smyth
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:42 AM
>>> To: Woolf list
>>> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines & Woolf's suicide
>>>  
>>> Thank you for this excellent Orr information; I know Sir Leslie's financial anxiety was formative in Woolf's life, as well as Virginia's and Leonard's natural asceticism and frugality.
>>>  
>>> Another factor in her suicide, as I understand it, was the imminence of a Nazi invasion. I think this is mentioned, rather brutally, by Vanessa, in one of her letters to Virginia -- the prospect of being an "invalid" or raving lunatic at such a time, with both Leonard and herself on Hitler's to-kill list.
>>>  
>>> Finally, as I understand it, Adrian Stephen, a physician, had provided them all with a suicide pill in the event of a successful Nazi invasion.
>>>  
>>> These factors, along with the Bloomsberries' longstanding atheism and Leonard's carefully cultivated stoicism (via Montaigne/Seneca), would have made Virginia Woolf's suicide the altruistic, logical, long-contemplated, communitarian and sane decision -- the absolute opposite of a romantic madwoman's hurling herself into the abyss -- that it seems to have been.
>>>  
>>> Thanks.
>>> Jeannette Smyth
>>>  
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: "Neverow, Vara S." 
>>> Sent: Jun 14, 2012 8:36 AM 
>>> To: "helt0010 at umn.edu" , Woolf list 
>>> Cc: Wayne Chapman 
>>> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines & Woolf's suicide 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With regard to Woolf's suicide, I would recommend that Woolfians also consult the monograph Virginia Woolf's Illnesses by Douglass W. Orr <http://www.clemson.edu/cedp/cudp/pubs/orr/main.htm>. Orr argues veryconvincingly
> 
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