MCLC: interview with Ji Dan

[Denton, Kirk]

MCLC LIST
From: kevin lee <kevin at dgeneratefilms.com>
Subject: interview with Ji Dan
***********************************************************

Source: dGenerate films:
http://dgeneratefilms.com/china-today/cinematalk-a-conversation-with-ji-dan
/

Also, a review of When the Bough Breaks:
http://dgeneratefilms.com/china-today/review-when-the-bough-breaks/

CinemaTalk: A Conversation with Filmmaker Ji Dan
By Maya Eva Gunst Rudolph

Originally from Heilongjiang, Ji Dan is a documentary filmmaker who
has worked extensively in both China and Japan. Her past works include
Spirit Home (2006), Dream of the Empty City (2007), and Spiral
Staircase of Harbin (2008), which was awarded prizes at both the
Yamagata International Documentary Film Festival and the China
Documentary Film Festival.

Ji Dan¹s most recent work, When The Bough Breaks, is a remarkably
intimate account of a family of migrant trash scavengers living in
Beijing and the bitter struggle of two young girls to send their
little brother to school, against all odds and in the wake of their
older sister¹s disappearance. The day after When The Bough Breaks made
its North America premiere at MoMA¹s Documentary Fortnight, I spoke to
Ji Dan in New York about the family depicted in When The Bough Breaks,
her unique approach to filming and getting involved in the lives of
her subjects, her mutual appreciation of theater and documentary, and
what it¹s like being one of Chinese documentary¹s few female
directors.

­

dGenerate Films: Can you give some background on When The Bough
Breaks? How did you meet the family and begin to understand their
situation in such a way that you wanted to film them?

Ji Dan:  This all started in 2004 when I was working on another
project with NHK. I wanted to do something more international at that
time, so I approached NHK with a project. NHK is a TV station, so I
had to tailor my project a bit to meet their needs. So, in 2004, I was
making a film on the topic of education, filming in a big school in
Beijing, and that¹s how I met the kids in this family. At that time,
they were part of a relatively famous school in Beijing called Xingzhe
School. I met them and got to know them and how difficult their lives
are. Through the school, I learned that they were kids who came from a
really rough background and were really only able to attend the school
because tuition was free at that time.

dGF: So, you met the kids first and then you met their parents. Did
the parents support you coming in to film their family or did you meet
any resistance?

JD: They were used to it. They¹d gotten used to media coming in to try
and interview them. The school would set this up and media would pay a
few hundred RMB to give interviews, so they were really accustomed to
a media presence. Also, the kids were pretty happy. They were living
in the garbage site, which is very difficult, but they still seemed
happy. Initially, I didn¹t think they had much hardship and I had a
nice relationship with the family. These kids seemed really adorable
and lively when they were little. But at that point, I hadn¹t really
filmed too much. They didn¹t seem too compelling, just kind of like a
happy family. Things were really okay and the kids were able to go to
school.

But then, five years later, in 2009, these kids called me and told me
³our older sister has disappeared.² Their older sister was really
sweet, I had filmed her a lot. This was such a terrible blow to this
family; their lives changed completely. They had been reasonably
happy, but after she vanished, their lives were filled with such
suffering. Suddenly, nothing was the same. Then, I though, there¹s
really a story here.

dGF: So, after they contacted you, you began to film the family. You
lived with the family during the period of time covered in the film,
is that correct?

JD: Yes, at this time, the kids were living at school. The tuition was
free at that time, so they were still able to live at school. I lived
in the teacher¹s dormitory, slept in a bunk bed. The kids were living
in the student dorms, so I could easily visit them. This was at the
Xingzhe School in Beijing.

dGF: I don¹t think many directors would get as deeply involved in the
lives of their subjects as it seems you did with this family. Can you
talk about how you really became part of the family, how you helped
them out, how your interaction shaped the story?

JD: I really like to help other people. Sometimes, I get really
fanatical about helping others. When I finished my previous film on
education, I felt that it had too many of my own thoughts, my own
agenda. I felt that in some way I had suppressed the subjects of my
film. So, I thought I needed to withdraw myself from my next project.
Of course, I didn¹t want to waste time on a project that wasn¹t of
personal interest, but at that time, the feeling I had in my heart was
not great. So, when I began to film this project, I did so with the
sense that personal relationships were going to be extremely important
and I would be careful not to simply show what I like and dislike, but
to really show these kids and their outlook on life. I decided to
withdraw myself‹my ego‹from the project to some extent.

You know, they¹re kids. They¹re just kids, so while I was filming, I
really wanted to protect them. So, on the issue of money and
specifically their need for tuition money, this was an extremely
difficult thing to see happen. Their parents didn¹t help them. I was
filming them and I really couldn¹t just sit back and watch them coming
so close to a world of suffering and possible danger, given the
lengths they were willing to go to secure the money. So, when I film a
documentary, I feel that getting involved in this way is one of my
strengths, something I can do to help. This is real life, you know. I
don¹t have a lot of money, but these people had become my friends.
They needed 3,000 RMB for the tuition. So, just as I would with any
friend who really needed my help, I helped them and gave them 3,000.
At the time I was filming, of course I had to consider how this would
impact our relationship and the film, but I though that to not help
them would be a sin. It would be a sin to watch these children endure
such suffering. It was about more than making a great film.

dGF: When you started filming, did you ever anticipate that you as an
individual could have such an impact on the story, to truly enter the
story and change the outcome?

JD: Actually, when I started filming, I intended to film a story about
the older sister. I was going to tell the story of the family looking
for the older sister and the dangerous world she may have entered,
possibly an environment of prostitution and crime. She grew up to be
very pretty, so this was a definite possibility‹that she had been
forced to or chosen to become a prostitute. They truly didn¹t know
what had happened to her. She may have encountered some terrible fate,
but she might have also gone back to their hometown and gotten
married. So, I just wanted to see what would happen with this family
in the wake of the girl¹s disappearance, especially to the younger
children. But then circumstances changed and the kids¹ focus shifted
entirely to making sure the little brother was able to go to school.
They were fighting for this‹it became the most important part of this
family¹s life. As far as the father is concerned, he only really wants
his children to work. He thinks that, if the kids all work, this will
really improve the family¹s quality of life. But, it¹s clear that he
is the most significant roadblock against this idea that the son
should go to college in order to graduate and get a good job and make
more money.

So, this conflict really took over and shaped the story. I think, in
terms of the story as a film, the family really became the directors.
They were the directors of this film.

dGF: Even though When The Bough Breaks is a documentary, it¹s unlike
any documentary I¹ve ever seen before. It reads like a narrative drama
of the highest order, almost like a Russian family drama in the vein
of Chekhov or Dostoevsky. In recognizing this story as such, how do
you reconcile the idea of documentary versus narrative? Where do these
world collide for you, if at all?

JD: I really love theater. When I was younger, I was particularly
drawn to theater while studying in both Beijing and Japan. I am very
interested in Chekhov and also Eugene O¹Neill. I was really into
O¹Neill during my college years.

dGF: Did you major in theater in college?

JD: I studied Chinese literature at Beijing Normal University, but
I¹ve always loved Western literature and theatre. So, when I start
filming, I do keep this framing in mind. When I began filming these
kids, I would signal that the camera was present and rolling by
staying ³start.² I think that when I say ³start,² their consciousness
naturally shifts, their awareness of the camera influences things. But
I think it also can be said that, on a larger scale, I said ³start²
when a very important and serious series of events were occurring for
these children‹at a very crucial and dramatic time in their lives.

When I say ³start,² there¹s a real sense of a shift that occurs
naturally, a change in consciousness. Just as I am conscious of them,
the kids were conscious of my presence listening to them and watching
them.

I really didn¹t approach this like, ³oh just talk and I¹ll be here
filming.² I really like to present the camera as a deliberate
presence. I really let the kids take the time to get to know and
understand me, just as I got to know and strove to understand them. I
wanted them to understand who I was and why I was interested in
filming them.

dGF: This film has already screened in Rotterdam, Beijing, and a few
other places and has just made its North American premiere at MoMA.
What you hope audiences, both Chinese and foreign, will take away from
this film?

JD: I very rarely think about these things. I think about what I¹m
filming and why, but rarely do I think about how other people will see
this work. Of course, if audiences can understand why I¹ve done this
film, I¹ll be very happy.

As for Chinese audiences specifically, I really hope they¹ll see this
film. I think that it¹s so easy for us to turn away from poor people
or to dismiss them as being simple and uneducated and only regard them
with a sort of ambiguous compassion. The Chinese media can especially
be this way.

Actually, when I began this project, I probably dismissed these people
as being simple in this way and felt that I could only influence them
or help them. But I¹ve witnessed these kids and they¹re tremendously
strong, just incredibly vital. They¹ve coped with things I can¹t even
begin to imagine. Their spirits are so much stronger than I can
imagine. They¹re not helpless or simple; we really don¹t understand
them. So, I hope Chinese audiences will really get this from the film.

At first, the kids really hated the camera. They saw it as a symbol of
people who didn¹t understand them‹media who came to interview them.
The reporters assumed that kids love this attention of being
interviewed. In reality, the kids hate this. Every time the media
would show up to film them collecting garbage, they kids would see
this false face of benevolence. So, the entire act of filming was
pretty complex.

dGF: Are you planning a new project now?

JD: I don¹t know if I want to film another family piece. Another
family with problems. I¹ve shot two films like this and I feel that
another film on this topic would be repetitive. I think I would like
to focus my next project on the past; on what has changed in China and
how we can understand this.

I would like to film a kind of elegy. An elegy for the Chinese people.
An elegy for Chinese culture, for architecture, for everything. Only,
I don¹t know how to start. I¹m quite scared, but also excited.

dGF: How do you feel about your role in the community of Chinese
independent documentary makers? How would you describe this world?

JD: Being a director is tough, but I think that documentary directors
in China now are actually very sweet people. Very genuine, but full of
doubts. All my friends are like this, ³What will I do now? How will I
accomplish this?²

We¹re really a community and since the film festivals started cropping
up several years ago, each time you meet more and more people. A lot
of young people who want to become directors, too. None of us have any
money, so we have to help each other out. If we did have a lot of
money, nobody would produce any interesting work. You see, this allows
the money to be the least important thing. Most important are ideas,
ability, working hard. In this way, not having any money is kind of a
good thing.

dGF: Hearing you talk about your very personal involvement with the
family featured in When The Bough Breaks, I was reminded of the
relationship between Wu Wenguang and the aspiring filmmaker who is the
subject of his film Fuck Cinema. While you took a very active role
off-screen and helped out a struggling family, Wu really takes the
opposite approach in his film, getting involved in the story onscreen
but ultimately deciding that his role must remain purely objective and
not offering any tangible support to the man in his film. How do you
reconcile these two radically different approaches to documentary and
personal involvement?

JD: Really, I think this is the difference between male and female
filmmakers. Most of my friends are male filmmakers, but our approach
to work can be very different. In any case, the question of the
relationships between subject and object really interests me.

Once, me and [directors] Hu Jie and Sha Qing started our own little
club, a little film club, we call ourselves I and Thou after the book
by Martin Buber. We really like this idea: ³me and you.² It¹s not
about ³me and him,² which is the relationship presented in Wu
Wenguang¹s film, it¹s about a different kind relationship between
people. This ³me and you² phrasing spans a lot of important
relationships: the relationship between lovers and friends and the
relationship you have with yourself.

The idea of perspective also enters into this, the idea that what ³I²
see is different from what ³you² see. I think women directors are
particularly preoccupied with relationships.

dGF: It¹s true that not many documentary directors in China are women.
How does this impact your work, if at all?

JD: I just think this has just always been true, historically. Not
just in China, but all through the history of documentary. I was
really concerned with this, especially when I first graduated from
college. And I don¹t know why this is the case, because, in many ways,
it¹s easier for a woman to shoot documentaries. As a woman, it can be
easier to gain some people¹s trust and to be invited into people¹s
lives.

But, on the other hand, being a director is not an easy life. You have
to be very independent and also willing to struggle quite a bit. You
have to be quite strong.