[Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Mon Apr 26 19:23:14 EDT 2021

Hi Cliff
Good to hear from you. The 046 field in the Authority record is recording
the exact day of birth and death of a person. The question is what to
record if we have only the Hebrew date.
I was born on 10th of Av 5710 - that will be July 24, 1950 or July 23 after
sunset.

The question of publishing date if we have only the Jewish year was solved:
in case we don't know the month, we record it as 5710 = 1949 or 1950.

It is interesting to note that the National Library in Jerusalem used (in
the past) to convert all years to Gregorian date by removing the 5000 and
adding 1240 - so all books that were published in 5710 changed to 1950
(5710-5000+1240=1950). This was done when the card catalog was converted to
the computerized catalog.

All the best

Yossi

[image: The Ohio State University]
Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschlaeger
Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies  Library
and Acting German Language and Literature Librarian
355A Thompson Memorial Library
The Ohio State University Libraries
1858 Neil Ave. Mall
Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA
Tel.: (614) 292-3362,  Fax: (614)292-1918
Mobile: (614) 285-4290
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu  or jgalron at gmail.com
URL:  http://library.osu.edu/about/departments/jewish-studies/
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature:
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 6:59 PM Cliff Miller via Heb-naco <
heb-naco at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I do not have references resources at home to check this. Do I remember
> correctly?
>
>
>
> Hebrew and Gregorian years overlap each other by 9 months. The minority is
> 3 months.
>
> Odds are 3 : 1 that the years with matching final digits are the correct
> year.
>
> Hebrew and Gregorian dates overlap each other by roughly 18 hours,
> depending on time and location.
>
> The doubtful time is only some 6 halakhic hours, give or take. Again odds
> are 3:1 for the majority date.
>
>
>
> If I remember correctly, rules and regulations tell us to take the most
> likely date as the date.
>
> The most likely date in the month and the most likely year are
> overwhelmingly the overlap.
>
> Is it not strictly following the rules if we cite that date as most
> probable?
>
>
>
> Thank you and best wishes.
>
> Rabbi Clifford Miller
>
> Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> *On Behalf Of *Galron,
> Joseph via Heb-naco
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:51 PM
> *To:* Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority
> Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in
> Wikidata (and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).
>
> My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know
> the two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated
> enough. We have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar
> and vis-a-versa https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!h7DfS5jIpuRXjRJ6awMg_D3AwpijzfEIzLIDyQNPPby4ZyWRnk_vwbfYgpbazOtKGO2U$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCAWKMFGT$>
>
> Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before
> sunset or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was
> born/died on December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the
> heading in the 100 field).
>
> I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research
> for “my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the
> Gregorian date on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example),
> Lexicons (Kressel and others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their
> Zeide told them they were born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910
> (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was December 1909 and not 1910)
>
> Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much
> time to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after
> sunset.
>
>
>
> At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I
> record the biographical information
>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!h7DfS5jIpuRXjRJ6awMg_D3AwpijzfEIzLIDyQNPPby4ZyWRnk_vwbfYgpbazKIWyoQ3$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCJYXeBe4$>
>
>
>
> My two Groschen to the issue
>
>
>
> Yossi
>
>
>
>
>
> יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר
>
> טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954
>
> Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер
>
> Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
> <https://library.osu.edu/people/galron.1>
> Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies Library
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/35nyXVx1aw9CrjvPVzwN5of6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fguides.osu.edu*2Fc.php*3Fg*3D337806*26p*3D2274681__;JSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0Mse6Etz$>
> and German Language and Literature Librarian
> 305 G Thompson Memorial Library
> The Ohio State University Libraries
> 1858 Neil Ave. Mall
> Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA
> Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918
> Mobile: (614) 805-9954
> E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu or jgalron at gmail.com
>
> *Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature*:
> http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QFzqKM4bhoMEbRUtvt5Cwi6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fgo.osu.edu*2Fhebrewlit__;JSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0GlG_VHC$>
>
>
> *Union List of Digitized Jewish Historic Newspapers and Periodicals*
> http://go.osu.edu/jpress
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3T7oGBhra4qxPxXMeh5okCG6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fgo.osu.edu*2Fjpress__;JSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0OJa_eeX$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco *On Behalf Of *Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:32 PM
> *To:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
> *Subject:* [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> Hi, folks, I hope this email finds you all well.
>
>
>
> I recently had the opportunity to get some guidance on how to code dates
> in the authority 046 when the date/s available is/are only using the Hebrew
> calendar. This was my question:
>
>
>
> “Hebrew dates span two calendar days and, as such, two Gregorian dates.
> Till now, the majority of catalogers have made an assumption that the
> Hebrew date is the latter of the two Gregorian dates and only coded that
> date in the 046 (indicating certainty). The question is, is such practice
> ok/correct? Or should catalogers be erring on the side of caution and
> coding the 046 date as uncertain, e.g. [2012-07-31, 2012-08-01], unless a
> Gregorian date is also given to confirm the date? I don’t recall seeing any
> guidance on this subject. Can you please advise?”
>
>
>
> This was the response from LC:
>
>
>
> “What an interesting question about EDTF, especially since it was a topic
> here at LC a couple of weeks ago (not about Hebrew dates, but about what
> catalogers are supposed to do in the 046 field in general). I would err
> on the side of caution and give both dates in the 046 field when the
> Gregorian date is not known. Come to think of it, maybe I will add
> something about this to the DCM Z1 046 update that I am working on as a
> result of that meeting we had here a couple of weeks ago. That will
> document it.” (highlight added)
>
>
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
>
> Best wishes, Jasmin
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Jasmin Shinohara
>
> Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
>
> University of Pennsylvania
>
> 551.1 Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
>
> 3420 Walnut Street
>
> Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
>
> T. 215-746-6397
>
> jshino at upenn.edu
>
>
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