<div dir="ltr">Hi Cliff<div>Good to hear from you. The 046 field in the Authority record is recording the exact day of birth and death of a person. The question is what to record if we have only the Hebrew date. </div><div>I was born on 10th of Av 5710 - that will be July 24, 1950 or July 23 after sunset.</div><div><br></div><div>The question of publishing date if we have only the Jewish year was solved: in case we don't know the month, we record it as 5710 = 1949 or 1950.</div><div><br></div><div>It is interesting to note that the National Library in Jerusalem used (in the past) to convert all years to Gregorian date by removing the 5000 and adding 1240 - so all books that were published in 5710 changed to 1950 (5710-5000+1240=1950). This was done when the card catalog was converted to the computerized catalog.</div><div><br></div><div>All the best</div><div><br></div><div>Yossi</div><div> <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><img src="http://osu.edu/assets/site/images/logos/osu-emailsig.png" alt="The Ohio State University" width="223" height="45" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 5px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:17px"><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px"><font color="#ff0000">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschlaeger</font><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px">Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies Library<br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:17px"><span style="font-size:small">and Acting German Language and Literature Librarian</span><br></div><div>355A Thompson Memorial Library</div>The Ohio State University Libraries <br>1858 Neil Ave. Mall<br>Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA<br>Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918<div><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;border:0px;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(51,51,51);line-height:17px"><span style="font-family:arial;font-size:small;line-height:normal">Mobile: (614) 285-4290</span></span></div><div>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank" class="docs-creator">galron.1@osu.edu</a> or <a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="docs-creator">jgalron@gmail.com</a></div><div>URL: <a href="http://library.osu.edu/about/departments/jewish-studies/" target="_blank" class="docs-creator">http://library.osu.edu/about/departments/jewish-studies/</a><br>Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature:<br><a href="http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit" target="_blank" class="docs-creator">http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 6:59 PM Cliff Miller via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not have references resources at home to check this. Do I remember correctly?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hebrew and Gregorian years overlap each other by 9 months. The minority is 3 months.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Odds are 3 : 1 that the years with matching final digits are the correct year.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hebrew and Gregorian dates overlap each other by roughly 18 hours, depending on time and location.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The doubtful time is only some 6 halakhic hours, give or take. Again odds are 3:1 for the majority date.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I remember correctly, rules and regulations tell us to take the most likely date as the date.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The most likely date in the month and the most likely year are overwhelmingly the overlap.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is it not strictly following the rules if we cite that date as most probable?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you and best wishes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rabbi Clifford Miller<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shinohara, Jasmin <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata (and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and vis-a-versa
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCAWKMFGT$" target="_blank">https://www.hebcal.com/converter</a> <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 field).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for “my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and others).
I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">תר"ע</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL"> </span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was December 1909 and not
1910)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record the biographical information<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCJYXeBe4$" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My two Groschen to the issue<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yossi<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:David,sans-serif;color:black">יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר</span><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:14pt;font-family:David,sans-serif;color:black">טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954</span><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://library.osu.edu/people/galron.1" target="_blank">Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger</a><br>
Head, </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/35nyXVx1aw9CrjvPVzwN5of6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fguides.osu.edu*2Fc.php*3Fg*3D337806*26p*3D2274681__;JSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0Mse6Etz$" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(17,85,204)">Hebraica
& Jewish Studies Library</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
and German Language and Literature Librarian<br>
305 G Thompson Memorial Library<br>
The Ohio State University Libraries <br>
1858 Neil Ave. Mall<br>
Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA<br>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918<br>
Mobile: (614) 805-9954<br>
E-Mail: <a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">galron.1@osu.edu</span></a> or <a href="mailto:jgalron@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">jgalron@gmail.com</span></a><br>
<br>
<b>Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature</b>:<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3QFzqKM4bhoMEbRUtvt5Cwi6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fgo.osu.edu*2Fhebrewlit__;JSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0GlG_VHC$" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(17,85,204)">http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br>
<b>Union List of Digitized Jewish Historic Newspapers and Periodicals</b><br>
</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/clicktime.symantec.com/3T7oGBhra4qxPxXMeh5okCG6H2?u=http*3A*2F*2Fgo.osu.edu*2Fjpress__;JSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0OJa_eeX$" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(17,85,204)">http://go.osu.edu/jpress</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs<u></u><u></u></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi, folks, I hope this email finds you all well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I recently had the opportunity to get some guidance on how to code dates in the authority 046 when the date/s available is/are only using the Hebrew calendar. This was my question:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in">“Hebrew dates span two calendar days and, as such, two Gregorian dates. Till now, the majority of catalogers have made an assumption that the Hebrew date is the latter of the two Gregorian dates and only coded that
date in the 046 (indicating certainty). The question is, is such practice ok/correct? Or should catalogers be erring on the side of caution and coding the 046 date as uncertain, e.g. [2012-07-31, 2012-08-01], unless a Gregorian date is also given to confirm
the date? I don’t recall seeing any guidance on this subject. Can you please advise?”<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This was the response from LC:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in">“What an interesting question about EDTF, especially since it was a topic here at LC a couple of weeks ago (not about Hebrew dates, but about what catalogers are supposed to do in the 046 field in general). I would
<span style="background:yellow">err on the side of caution</span> and
<span style="background:yellow">give both dates in the 046 field when the Gregorian date is not known</span>. Come to think of it, maybe I will add something about this to the DCM Z1 046 update that I am working on as a result of that meeting
we had here a couple of weeks ago. That will document it.” (highlight added)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please let me know if you have any questions.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes, Jasmin <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jasmin Shinohara<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">University of Pennsylvania<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">551.1 Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3420 Walnut Street<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">T. 215-746-6397<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">jshino@upenn.edu</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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