[Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Fri Apr 23 07:13:29 EDT 2021

I agree with Yossi. Yossi, You took the words right out of my mouth.
________________________________
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:50:52 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**

I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata (and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).

My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and vis-a-versa https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_dPOwgl5$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.hebcal.com*2Fconverter&data=04*7C01*7Cschiffma*40yu.edu*7C0022238fa7b44aac83b708d9060affd7*7C04c70eb48f2648079934e02e89266ad0*7C1*7C0*7C637547466580747442*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=CcEdKBGdgMkCkRgGTvUoAWRFyz7z5*2BMizH*2FRdPz3Q0g*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_UlYErM7$ >

Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 field).

I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for “my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was December 1909 and not 1910)

Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.

At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record the biographical information

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_XEhOZX1$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fdocs.google.com*2Fspreadsheets*2Fd*2F1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4*2Fedit*3Fusp*3Dsharing&data=04*7C01*7Cschiffma*40yu.edu*7C0022238fa7b44aac83b708d9060affd7*7C04c70eb48f2648079934e02e89266ad0*7C1*7C0*7C637547466580757397*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=6dNeJB7Nl9c*2BTvJEwz8uF5ozn4pO7qvBEc7U0bta8Fw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_Rwf4oDy$ >

My two Groschen to the issue

Yossi

יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר

טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954

Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер

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Union List of Digitized Jewish Historic Newspapers and Periodicals
http://go.osu.edu/jpress<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fclicktime.symantec.com*2F3T7oGBhra4qxPxXMeh5okCG6H2*3Fu*3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fgo.osu.edu*2Fjpress__*3BJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!kUTYt7T7txseqvv_MbDA40Qc8GOigrxqsE-7Zi5NkfP2ikN57ei5Adhh0OJa_eeX*24&data=04*7C01*7Cschiffma*40yu.edu*7C0022238fa7b44aac83b708d9060affd7*7C04c70eb48f2648079934e02e89266ad0*7C1*7C0*7C637547466580767354*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000&sdata=xmUGLRaHV6Y37YyP0Xc2iMHWre8ZKhnLAji5Dpyq8QM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_cKQZRBb$ >

From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:32 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Hi, folks, I hope this email finds you all well.

I recently had the opportunity to get some guidance on how to code dates in the authority 046 when the date/s available is/are only using the Hebrew calendar. This was my question:

“Hebrew dates span two calendar days and, as such, two Gregorian dates. Till now, the majority of catalogers have made an assumption that the Hebrew date is the latter of the two Gregorian dates and only coded that date in the 046 (indicating certainty). The question is, is such practice ok/correct? Or should catalogers be erring on the side of caution and coding the 046 date as uncertain, e.g. [2012-07-31, 2012-08-01], unless a Gregorian date is also given to confirm the date? I don’t recall seeing any guidance on this subject. Can you please advise?”

This was the response from LC:

“What an interesting question about EDTF, especially since it was a topic here at LC a couple of weeks ago (not about Hebrew dates, but about what catalogers are supposed to do in the 046 field in general). I would err on the side of caution and give both dates in the 046 field when the Gregorian date is not known. Come to think of it, maybe I will add something about this to the DCM Z1 046 update that I am working on as a result of that meeting we had here a couple of weeks ago. That will document it.” (highlight added)

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Best wishes, Jasmin

---

Jasmin Shinohara

Hebraica Cataloging Librarian

University of Pennsylvania

551.1 Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center

3420 Walnut Street

Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206

T. 215-746-6397

jshino at upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at upenn.edu>

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