[Heb-NACO] Fwd: [RDA-L] Re: RE: Re: Title translated by the publisher

Thu Aug 7 12:26:42 EDT 2014

FYI - interesting discussion below. I am not quite understanding the issue. Works that contain a parallel title do not have to contain expressions of the original resource in other other languages. I work mostly with monographs and some serials and many of these have what RDA defines as a parallel title proper"The title proper in another language and/or script." RDA also tells us in 2.3.2 that we can take the title from any source in the resource. As we know these can be found on title page verso, added title page, caption, running title, cover title. 

There has been some confusion on how to code and where to put the parallel title in a MARC environment. In RDA mapping to MARC we put the parallel title proper in a 245 field. However we are also told to provide a note in RDA 2.3.3. "If a parallel title proper is taken from a different source than the title proper, and that fact is considered important for identification, make a note on the source." To the best of my knowledge we are not given specific instruction in the form of an LC-PCC PS on where to locate this note and up until the present time most of us have been doing it in a MARC 246 field: 

246 31 - Parallel title 

246 15 Added title page title. 

246 14 Cover title 

and so on. 

Ultimately we want to think about what is clearest for the patron while staying true to RDA. They might not understand the concept of a parallel title and providing access to that title combined with a note that clearly indicates where on the resource that title is located is certainly a help instead of a hindrance. 

I look forward to comments on my thoughts. 

Best, Heidi 

-------- Original Message -------- 
Subject: 	[RDA-L] Re: RE: Re: Title translated by the publisher 
Date: 	Thu, 7 Aug 2014 06:33:42 -0700 
From: 	Mark Anders Harrison <markandersh at gmail.com> 

Reply-To: 	rda-l at ala.org 

To: 	rda-l at ala.org 

Hi Vanessa, 

Please feel free to forward my e-mails. I'd be interested in hearing of any further discussion as I could find myself in a similar situation. I agree that the language you italicized is key. It will be interesting to see what others think of my reasoning. 

I have a friend of 40 years who chairs the Jewish studies program at California State University Long Beach. He's not a librarian, but I might show him the language and examples used in RDA and see what he thinks just to get a different POV. He has a mind for debating possible interpretations and was a lawyer before deciding to teach instead. It might be interesting to get a academic's POV. 

MAH 

On Aug 7, 2014, at 04:51 , Freedman, Vanessa < v.freedman at ucl.ac.uk > wrote: 

Dear Mark 
Yes I’m talking about cases where the text is entirely in Hebrew. 
As to whether this constitutes a variant title or a parallel title, I guess it depends on how you interpret ‘Treat an original title in a language different from that of the title proper as a parallel title proper if it is presented as the equivalent of the title proper’ in 2.3.3.1 (my italics). So is an English title on the title page verso presented as the equivalent of the title proper? I’m not sure it is, but most RDA records that I’ve seen do treat it as a parallel title. 
With your and Ghada’s permission I would like to forward your emails to the Heb-NACO email list, as there are many people on there who have far more experience with RDA than I do. 
Best wishes 
Vanessa 
Vanessa Freedman 
Hebrew & Jewish Studies Librarian 
UCL Library Services 
University College London 
Gower Street 
London WC1E 6BT 
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7679 2598 (Internal ext. 32598) 
Fax: +44 (0) 20 7679 7373 
E-mail: v.freedman at ucl.ac.uk 
Twitter: @UCLHJSLibrary @vrfreedman 
Website: www.ucl.ac.uk/library 
**Please remember the environment and only print this if necessary** 
From: Mark Anders Harrison [ mailto:markandersh at gmail.com ] 
Sent: 06 August 2014 14:27 
To: rda-l at ala.org 
Subject: [RDA-L] Re: Title translated by the publisher 
Vanessa: 
I understand from what you say that the text is entirely in Hebrew, but an English translation of the title is provided in your source of information, along with the Hebrew title. Is that correct? If so, would that not constitute a variant title, in which case using the 246 field would be correct? Even if this English translation of the title appears on the title page, if the text is all in Hebrew in that expression (making it a Hebrew language expression of the original work), how would the English rendition of the title in that particular manifestation be a title proper? It's provided as a convenience. 
It appears to me that what the parallel title instructions in 2.3.3 are describing a different situation, which occurs in a couple of different contexts. Based on my experience, the example of "Road map of Switzerland" given in RDA 2.3.3.3 seems to refer to manifestation in which multiple languages all appear together, where it would be impossible to even determine which language is "the original." The resource was intended to be multilingual from the outset. Hence, the title for each language is equally a title proper, and the rule given to follow the sequence shown in the resource makes perfect sense because there is no other basis on which to call one title "proper" and the others secondary. 
I am an Orthodox Christian seminary graduate and having worked in a theological library I have seen bilingual Hebrew/English siddurim. While the original work may have been entirely in Hebrew, those particular manifestations provided parallel expressions in Hebrew and English, treating them as equals (facing pages). Only external knowledge that Jewish prayer is traditionally in Hebrew would tell a cataloguer that the Hebrew could/would be considered primary. We have the same situation arise with Orthodox Christian prayerbooks for laity, where a prayerbook is printed with facing pages in Church Slavonic and English or Greek and English. I don't know about siddurim, but such Christian books often manifest unique collections of prayers. That is, the item at hand is not simply an exemplar of an English translation of what was a particular work in Slavonic or Greek. Instead, the compiler chose and arranged his/her own selection out of MANY possible prayers for that particular edition and provided them in English as well as Greek or Slavonic. At the manifestation level, then, the English expression is rendered as a complete parallel to the Slavonic or Greek expression, often right down to the arrangement of the title page and the typesetting throughout. Likewise, my grandmother (who was raised Catholic) had a layman's missal from before Vatican II that contained facing pages of Latin and English. 
These examples would again differ from English translations of works that are officially promulgated in a specific language like Greek, Latin or Slavonic. In the Roman Catholic Church in particular, even the post Vatican II liturgical texts, are officially all in Latin. That is the official versions, considered to be uniquely authoritative are the Latin texts. The new translations that recently came out under Pope Benedict XVI illustrate this point in that the new translations were corrections to conform more closely to the authoritative Latin originals. In such cases, the Latin titles are preferred titles, to be recorded at the work level in an authority record under RDA 6.23.2.8. 
So that is my take based on a cursory review of RDA instructions and my experience with multi-lingual manifestations/items in Europe and in liturgical texts. Your use of the 246 field and your added notation in MARC 041 with a "0" first indicator and MARC 546 seem warranted to make it clear that what you are describing is a text entirely in Hebrew, not a bilingual edition. 
Sincerely, 
Mark Anders Harrison 
Mark Anders Harrison 
1515 Date Street, Apt. 202 
Vista, CA 92083 
iPhone: 505.918.4111 
markandersh at gmail.com 

On Aug 6, 2014, at 02:24 , Freedman, Vanessa < v.freedman at ucl.ac.uk > wrote: 

This is very common in Hebrew books and under RDA we treat it as a parallel title, see 2.3.3.1 'A parallel title proper is the title proper in another language and/or script', 2.3.3.2. 'Take parallel titles proper from any source within the resource', so we would have: 

245$a [Hebrew title proper] = $b [English title] 
2461_$i Title on title page verso: $a [English title]. No guidelines have been given on whether or not to use second indicator 1 when the parallel title comes from another location in the resource, but the current practice among Hebraica cataloguers seems to be only to use second indicator 1 when it's a 'true' parallel title. (You might also get an English title on an added title page, in which case the second indicator would be 5) 

Personally I am not very happy with treating the English title as a parallel title. I think it's misleading for the catalogue user, implying that the book is in Hebrew and English, but it seems to be the only possible interpretation of the RDA instructions. To make it clear that the book is in Hebrew only I have been adding an 0410_$a heb and a 546 In Hebrew only. 

Best wishes 

Vanessa Freedman 

Vanessa Freedman 
Hebrew & Jewish Studies Librarian 
UCL Library Services 
University College London 
Gower Street 
London WC1E 6BT 

Tel: +44 (0) 20 7679 2598 (Internal ext. 32598) 
Fax: +44 (0) 20 7679 7373 
E-mail: v.freedman at ucl.ac.uk 
Twitter: @UCLHJSLibrary @vrfreedman 
Website: www.ucl.ac.uk/library 

**Please remember the environment and only print this if necessary** 

-----Original Message----- 
From: ghadadimashk at gmail.com [ mailto:ghadadimashk at gmail.com ] 
Sent: 05 August 2014 06:52 
To: rda-l at ala.org 
Subject: [RDA-L] Title translated by the publisher 

Dear all, 
I have some books from the Center for Arab Unity Studies, the book is originally published in Arabic, but the publisher here translated the Arabic title into English and it is found in verso title page, knowing that the text is not translated into English. 
In this case, should we mention the English title in Field 246 indicator 1 (parallel title)? or should we mention it as a note? or can we mention it in 
246 $i title translated by publisher? 
Best Regards, 
Ghada Dimashk 
Lebanese National Library 
Cataloging Department 
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