[Vwoolf] Flipping the script
Ellen Moody
ellen.moody at gmail.com
Tue May 3 15:20:00 EDT 2022
P.S. I probably should have said I came across this page recently:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.englishliterature.info/2021/09/indo-anglian-literature-definition.html__;!!KGKeukY!yfTOq3qbEO5_SpgX-31sjNHFk444Jdi7KL9JzInomd2yU-3K6VkDNg6_xE2nXazugKFoxuKF7VPPblrox1KNsnN3$
It seems to me lucid and accurate. But still my new choices do not quite
fit the splitting and lumping.
Ellen
On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 3:10 PM Ellen Moody <ellen.moody at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been teaching a course I called Anglo-Indian Novels for 10 weeks this
> spring: you might say were I to use the nomenclature of my years teaching
> undergraduates, I've had two sections of this. One at the Oscher Institute
> of Lifelong Learning group of older adults attached to American University;
> and one at the OLLI attached to George Mason University. The set texts
> have been Forster's Passage to India, Scott's Jewel in the Crown (Raj
> Quartet 1), and Jhumpa Lahirir's Namesake. I really have agonized over my
> course title -- in my classes I've had people who detail the earlier
> history of this term -- Indian people who emigrated to the US in the
> 1960s.. Both sections (so to speak) have gone so well that I'd like to
> repeat it with different books (Farrell's Siege of Krisnapur, Rushdie's
> Midnight Children and Lahiri's The Lowland). So should I change my course
> title? The problem is I have found over and over again that the term
> Anglo-Indian is used for novels written in English (the writer need not be
> British) about India in literary studies. I've come across alternatives:
> Indo-Anglian novels (even without the "c" this one makes me think of the
> CofE church); British Novels about/of India, but my choice includes an
> Irish writer and an American (sort of) one. I've come across others. I
> realize the term has some bad baggage of racism but have almost decided
> it's the most efficient broad general one.
>
> Ellen Moody
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 3, 2022 at 2:54 PM Marielle O'Neill (1806529) PHD via Vwoolf <
> vwoolf at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
>
>> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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>>
>> Hi Gretchen,
>>
>> Thanks for your points.
>>
>> However, I disagree with your comment, ' the term "Anglo-Indian" was used
>> only for white English people living in India'- this is not the case in my
>> family's experience around the time Woolf was writing 'Mrs Dalloway'. My
>> grandmother born in the 1920s, her siblings and her father were not white
>> (her mother was white Portuguese) but had Indian colouring and
>> self-identified and were considered Anglo-Indian- so I think it is more
>> nuanced and complex; and of course, race isn't always easy to categorise.
>> My father was white and referred to himself as Anglo-Indian (Anglo-Indian
>> mother and Anglo-Irish father). As you said, the context is important and
>> the term Anglo-Indian in the sense that Woolf knew it and that way of life
>> did die out when India gained its independence. As we know, Woolf herself
>> was part Anglo-Indian with Julia Stephen having Bengali heritage.
>>
>> Warm wishes,
>> Marielle
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vwoolf <vwoolf-bounces+m.oneill=leedstrinity.ac.uk at lists.osu.edu>
>> On Behalf Of Gretchen Gerzina via Vwoolf
>> Sent: 03 May 2022 15:00
>> To: vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script
>>
>> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> The important thing to remember in all of this is that at the time Woolf
>> was writing, the term "Anglo-Indian" was used only for white English people
>> living in India. It wasn't until much later that the term changed to refer
>> to mixed-race English/Indian people, which is the way it is used today--and
>> the way it is generally defined now in dictionaries. But it was not used
>> that way when Mrs. Dalloway was written, as readers at that time would have
>> understood.
>>
>> Similarly, the word "Creole" used to refer to all people, including white
>> people, who were born and raised in the Caribbean. In the 18th century, it
>> was used mainly for the plantocracy, who sent their (white) Caribbean
>> offspring to live or be educated in Britain.
>>
>> As a mixed-race person who is keenly aware of these linguistic nuances,
>> and teaches and writes about race in the UK, I think it's important to
>> understand how these words were used and understood at the time of the
>> writing in which they appear, and how that differs from today's usage.
>>
>> --Gretchen Gerzina
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/2/22, 8:59 PM, "vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu on behalf of
>> vwoolf-request at lists.osu.edu" <vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu on behalf of
>> vwoolf-request at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf (Stuart N. Clarke)
>> 2. Inclusivity (Stuart N. Clarke)
>> 3. Re: Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf (Alice E. Staveley)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 10:49:35 +0100
>> From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
>> To: <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>> Message-ID: <227D222ACACE416EBBD5E610BC2C0E47 at StuartHP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>> reply-type=original
>>
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>>
>> Dear oh dear oh dear. So Daisy is a Eurasian, is she? I expect the
>> author
>> was tempted by the ref. to Daisy's being "very dark" - and ran with
>> it.
>> Shall we speculate on how many Eurasians were publicly married to
>> majors in
>> the Indian Army at that time? Daisy doesn't seem to be ostracised,
>> since
>> there are refs. to Majors Orde and Simmons (or is he her husband? the
>> author
>> thinks so). Peter Walsh has confided in Mrs Burgess in India, who
>> has
>> pointed out the disadvantages of his marrying Daisy, but she has made
>> no
>> ref. to the enormous additional problems he would face in marrying a
>> divorced mixed-race woman.
>>
>> Instead of "There?s something wonderfully subversive about taking a
>> well-known Western text and flipping it inside out to reveal societal
>> truths", it's sounds more like piggy-backing on Woolf to sell copies
>> of this
>> (fantasy) novel.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kristin Czarnecki via Vwoolf
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 10:04 PM
>> To: Virginia Woolf
>> Subject: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>>
>> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
>> This Message Is From an External Sender
>> This message came from outside your organization.
>> |-------------------------------------------------------------------!
>>
>> A new book explores the character of Daisy from MD.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kristin
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.smh.com.au*2Fculture*2Fbooks*2Fflipping-the-script-on-virginia-woolf-20220421-p5af19.html__*3B!!KGKeukY!w50Arb0a5ofxhJOyZPHpOsXJraydeip_jzZtDOaYSEyFlmGP2tmXSSwCzC0khnSfwRUDOj5Cxidp6LmOjPFABwtS*24&data=05*7C01*7Cm.oneill*40leedstrinity.ac.uk*7Ce3ca2e5404774d4f1e9e08da2d0d771f*7Cdf4c20ba64a84352b3f947881abbc09a*7C0*7C0*7C637871833111229118*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=9KO3cBmGmykxhC2gWdo0kdGi5o2PcbPSTJv3C8XgaPo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!zplAA2EKMSk0VvxWfpVKTxTT9u00LcJyqgOVIe-bADJPGGeLIOqnl-WVG_JpULKAwzzZtBRE2jpvC0VPtj0m2RNfYqAdzw$
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 11:26:31 +0100
>> From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
>> To: <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
>> Subject: [Vwoolf] Inclusivity
>> Message-ID: <E7550605DF6848649FD24F9E22A2B096 at StuartHP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Wasn?t some reviewer/commentator quoted on this list not long ago,
>> saying that great writers were never inclusive, or some such rubbish?
>>
>> What we do have to remember that inclusivity as we understand it
>> nowadays is a very recent way of looking at the world (pace Mrs Swithin and
>> Prof Godbole). Previously, distinguishing people one from the other ?
>> exclusivity ? was how one looked at life.
>>
>> ?*doct(o)ress.* It is a serious inconvenience that neither form
>> (-tress would be the better) has been brought into any but facetious use as
>> a prefixed title? (H. W. Fowler, ?A Dictionary of Modern English Usage
>> (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1926), p. 120a
>>
>> ?What has given Jenufa this strange idea, that her dress is so plain
>> and sombre on her wedding day??
>> ?What, Jenufa? All the finest gentry dress plainly and simply when
>> they go to the altar!?
>> ?Gentle folk have their own fashions and customs, but we are only
>> simple people! I?d never dream of being wed without my bridal crown and
>> ribbons never! Never!?
>> (Libretto to Janacek?s opera)
>>
>> Of course, in 3G Woolf deplores the uniforms and badges of
>> distinction that set men off from one another. Of course, she writes: ?it
>> seems to me the wrong way to live, drawing chalk marks round ones feet, and
>> saying ... you can?t come in? (L no. 3111). But she?s a long way from
>> inclusivity in the modern sense.
>>
>> I?m was reminded about isolated people were from one another, when I
>> was reading recently two collections I?ve had for 45 years, ?My Cambridge?
>> and ?My Oxford? (I hadn?t realised how miserable Nigel Nicolson was at
>> Balliol).
>>
>> ?it was not till my first term at Cambridge that I spoke to my first
>> Jew and met my first black man (from Blackpool and Jamaica respectively)?
>> (John Vaizey (1929-84), went up to Queens? in 1948).
>>
>> There could be an advantage if you were gay: ?I think I can safely
>> say that, until I went to Oxford, I had never known anyone of working-class
>> background. There had, of course, been my London promiscuous sexual
>> encounters. Many of these had been with cockney working-class young men.
>> But this life which had begun before I was sixteen was a world as separate
>> from my daily life as were my dreams ... Apart from that, the only
>> working-class people I had known were servants ? and, given my family?s
>> near penury, these were not many. I had never known anyone well who came
>> from north of the Home Counties; and, apart from one visit with my father
>> to Scotland ... I had never penetrated into England north of Hampstead?
>> (Angus Wilson (1913-91, went up to Merton in 1935).
>>
>> Stuart
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 00:59:10 +0000
>> From: "Alice E. Staveley" <staveley at stanford.edu>
>> To: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
>> Cc: "vwoolf at lists.osu.edu" <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>> Message-ID: <14324AE1-CED9-4D46-B055-526F0F789A1C at stanford.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Stuart,
>>
>> While I have deliberated responding en groupe to this message, I
>> think it?s important to note that every year I teach Mrs Dalloway someone
>> asks me whether Daisy could be mixed race (Eurasian an outdated term to
>> their ears). This is not naive reading or willful ignorance, but because
>> there is sufficient textual ambiguity (pace your bullet points) around
>> Daisy?s identity and role in the novel ? a novel all about the deep human
>> costs of categorical boxes that deleteriously hem in people?s lives ? that
>> I take their readings as teachable moments.
>>
>> Textual ambiguity is a wonderful place to start unpacking all those
>> thorny questions about representation, including racial, sexual, gendered,
>> and class segregations, alongside their historical roots. Why, one might
>> ask, should we assume Daisy is white? Statistically, as you note, that?s
>> more probable, but then again those statistics themselves have a history
>> students need to learn in the context of colonialist fears about Englishmen
>> going to India without wives to keep them ?honest?.
>> This can open up a rich seam of discussion about other legal and
>> cultural prohibitions and prescriptions against miscegenation in the era,
>> along with the general interrogation of the ?marriage plot' in Mrs
>> Dalloway.
>>
>> Given my students? responses, it is not to me surprising that a
>> contemporary Australian writer of Goan-Anglo Indian heritage might herself
>> be inspired to find in creative adaptation of Woolf?s famous novel a form
>> of reinterpretation that is more than mercenary. I have not read her book,
>> but I believe, as I think the spirit of your later messages imply, it could
>> help us all take a hard look at just how limiting are fixed categorical
>> boxes, however much the 'nightmare of history? reminds us of their
>> continuing presence.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Alice
>>
>> Alice Staveley, D.Phil.
>> Senior Lecturer
>> Department of English
>> Stanford University
>> Director | Honors English
>> Director | Digital Humanities Minor
>> Co-Founder
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>>
>>
>>
>> On May 2, 2022, at 2:49 AM, Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf <
>> vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
>> This Message Is From an External Sender
>> This message came from outside your organization.
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>>
>> Dear oh dear oh dear. So Daisy is a Eurasian, is she? I expect the
>> author was tempted by the ref. to Daisy's being "very dark" - and ran with
>> it. Shall we speculate on how many Eurasians were publicly married to
>> majors in the Indian Army at that time? Daisy doesn't seem to be
>> ostracised, since there are refs. to Majors Orde and Simmons (or is he her
>> husband? the author thinks so). Peter Walsh has confided in Mrs Burgess in
>> India, who has pointed out the disadvantages of his marrying Daisy, but she
>> has made no ref. to the enormous additional problems he would face in
>> marrying a divorced mixed-race woman.
>>
>> Instead of "There?s something wonderfully subversive about taking a
>> well-known Western text and flipping it inside out to reveal societal
>> truths", it's sounds more like piggy-backing on Woolf to sell copies of
>> this (fantasy) novel.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Kristin Czarnecki via Vwoolf
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 10:04 PM
>> To: Virginia Woolf
>> Subject: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>>
>> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
>> This Message Is From an External Sender
>> This message came from outside your organization.
>> |-------------------------------------------------------------------!
>>
>> A new book explores the character of Daisy from MD.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kristin
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fwww.smh.com.au*2Fculture*2Fbooks*2Fflipping-the-script-on-virginia-woolf-20220421-p5af19.html__*3B!!KGKeukY!w50Arb0a5ofxhJOyZPHpOsXJraydeip_jzZtDOaYSEyFlmGP2tmXSSwCzC0khnSfwRUDOj5Cxidp6LmOjPFABwtS*24&data=05*7C01*7Cm.oneill*40leedstrinity.ac.uk*7Ce3ca2e5404774d4f1e9e08da2d0d771f*7Cdf4c20ba64a84352b3f947881abbc09a*7C0*7C0*7C637871833111229118*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=9KO3cBmGmykxhC2gWdo0kdGi5o2PcbPSTJv3C8XgaPo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!zplAA2EKMSk0VvxWfpVKTxTT9u00LcJyqgOVIe-bADJPGGeLIOqnl-WVG_JpULKAwzzZtBRE2jpvC0VPtj0m2RNfYqAdzw$
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
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>> ------------------------------
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>> End of Vwoolf Digest, Vol 120, Issue 1
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