[Ohiogift] Labelling the gifted

Wed Apr 16 23:28:16 EDT 2014

The reality is that without the term, in many districts absolutely nothing  
positive would happen for these kids. Indeed, is some places, nothing 
happens  now even with the label. The tragedy is that some people think that is  
perfectly OK, and actively work to dismantle any standards of/for services 
for  gifted students. 

In a message dated 4/16/2014 10:00:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
cdg.gradyllc at gmail.com writes:

So we'd rather have the preferred term or right definition than better  
opportunities  for children at school?  Anything else upsets our  delicate 
sensibilities?  
I'm sorry. That sounds sort of wimpy and just sad.
On Apr 16, 2014 9:50 PM, "Schultz, Robert" <_Robert.Schultz at utoledo.edu_ 
(mailto:Robert.Schultz at utoledo.edu) >  wrote:

A quick “chime in” from Northwest Ohio…..   

It is pretty hysterical (and sad, infuriating and the like) that a  
position such as that proposed by the authors is even being considered. With  the 
redefinition of gifted and emphasis on talent development, the field  (well, 
some people in it, that is) are attempting to mainstream on academics  and 
performance. This aligns well with measurement and accountability, but  
completely misses the mark for the vast majority of gifted kids. Making kids  fit 
the parameters of school has never worked for the gifted population. It  
needs to be the schools who must meet the needs of the kids.

There are many of us who know and firmly provide the social/emotional  
needs emphasis that is the grounding to our field, and the children (and  
families) that comprise our charge. Keep advocating and supporting the kids  in 
(and out of) the classroom. Keep working to point out where “the emperor  has 
no clothes”; and, the fallacies in the statements made by people who  have 
no experience working with the gifted.

And, remember, gifted is who you are—you cannot change it or hide it.  
Talented is what you can do—and you can decide to show it or  not. 

Relying on performance as the indicator of giftedness (or a rationale  for 
developing talent) is as myopic as expecting accountability testing to  fix 
education….

Keep up the good work!! For kids….

Bob

Robert A. Schultz, Ph.D.
Gifted  Education & Curriculum Studies
Professor
The University of Toledo
2801 W. Bancroft St.
2000 Z Gillham  Hall
Mailstop  924
Toledo, OH  43606

_(419)  530-2469_ (tel:(419)%20530-2469) 
_(419)  530-2466_ (tel:(419)%20530-2466)  FAX
_robert.schultz at utoledo.edu_ (mailto:robert.schultz at utoledo.edu) 

See my homepage at:
_homepages.utoledo.edu/rschult/home.html_ 
(http://homepages.utoledo.edu/rschult/home.html) 
and visit _www.giftedkidspeak.com_ (http://www.giftedkidspeak.com/) 

What I look forward to is  continued immaturity, followed by death.

—Dave  Barry

On Apr 16, 2014, at 9:22 PM, Colleen Grady <_cdg.gradyllc at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:cdg.gradyllc at gmail.com) > wrote:

I don't mean to be indelicate, but my concern here is not for  adults or 
institutions so I don't care what label is used or even if a  label is used.   

No disrespect to NAGC, but the idea of potentially changing an  
organization's name as problematic is laughable. 

I care about what happens for these children. If ditching the term  
"gifted" (or screaming like a chicken on Capitol Square at high noon)  improved 
opportunities for gifted children I would do it in a heartbeat.  It's just not 
that important. Really, it's not.

And having lived through the trials, tribulations and fun of having  one of 
those highly gifted children (and living to tell the tale) I I know  all 
too well the social and emotional challenges for these kids and their  
families. Knowing all that I know I would give my eye teeth to just having  these 
children respected as individuals and have their academic and  instructional 
needs of these students recognized and met. That's plenty  and so much more 
than what we have now. Expecting the school to be  everything for everyone 
is unrealistic and quite frankly weakens advocacy  efforts. 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 8:54 PM, <_Ms118rbts at aol.com_ 
(mailto:Ms118rbts at aol.com) > wrote:

Susan,
Your question, "If we throw away the word, then what is the  National 
Association for Gifted Children, in which all of these authors  are major 
players, all about?" is right on.  
We wonder why we still keep fighting the same old battles with so  little 
forward progress.  With third grade guarantee and other  hoops to jump 
through, students who have exceptional ability are often  neglected,  especially 
when district finances are really tight. In  many cases,  having the " 
gifted" label is the only thing that  gets students anything approaching rigorous 
- let alone beyond grade  level instruction and endless practice at things 
the student already  understands.

It is hard to make progress when some in the field seem  to be giving those 
who do not believe in gifted education ammunition  like this article!
Margaret, I love your analogy!
Sally

In a message dated 4/16/2014 8:18:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
_susanrakow at earthlink.net_ (mailto:susanrakow at earthlink.net)  writes:

I don't agree either  because it presumes that giftedness is only about 
academic  intervention and school instruction and disregards, particularly 
among  the most highly gifted, the social and emotional aspects of  experiencing 
the world through a gifted mind and heart. Lots of words  have multiple 
connotations and sometimes the word "gifted" has  baggage...but so does 
autistic or Asperger's or diabetic or artist and  many others. And the fact is, 
that some children DO have abilities  that others don't, just as some children 
DO have disabilities that  others don't. 

If we throw away the word, then what is the  National Association for 
Gifted Children, in which all of these  authors are major players, all  about?
Susan

-----Original Message-----
>From:  Margaret DeLacy <_margaretdelacy at comcast.net_ 
(mailto:margaretdelacy at comcast.net) >
>Sent: Apr 16,  2014 8:07 PM
>To: _OATAG at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:OATAG at yahoogroups.com) , 
"_XL-PDX at yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:XL-PDX at yahoogroups.com) " <_XL-PDX at yahoogroups.com_ 
(mailto:XL-PDX at yahoogroups.com) >, _Tagfam at listserv.icors.org_ 
(mailto:Tagfam at listserv.icors.org) , _Ohiogift at lists.service.ohio-state.edu_ 
(mailto:Ohiogift at lists.service.ohio-state.edu) 
>Subject:  [Ohiogift] Labelling the gifted
>
>http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/04/16/28peters_ep.h33.html?cmp=ENL-E
U-NEWS1
>
>Commentary
>Gifted  Ed. Is Crucial, But the Label Isn't
>By Scott J. Peters, Scott  Barry Kaufman, Michael S. Matthews, Matthew T. 
McBee, D. Betsy McCoach  
>
>"But how does the label of "gifted" help teachers and  administrators 
determine the appropriate programming for students? In  our view, the term is 
not only unhelpful, but actually harmful to the  interests of bright students. 
"Gifted" is an educationally nondescript  concept, yet it also connotes an 
endowment that some students receive  while others do not. Moreover, the 
term seems to suggest that high  academic performance is a permanent quality, 
both due to chance and  applicable in all domains.
>
>The truth is that  "giftedness" is irrelevant to K-12 educational 
decisions. What is  relevant is whether the instruction a child receives is 
sufficiently  rigorous to challenge that child. When that is not the case, there are 
 many potential causes." 
>
>Margaret  comments:
>
>I disagree with this.  I think the  authors are insensitive to the 
realities of a school environment where  time and energy are at a premium.  These 
constraints make it  exceedingly unlikely that a child will have access to 
"rigorous"  instruction without a formal procedure for identifying the 
students  who are likely to need significant interventions.  
>
>Suppose I went to a nursery and said "one of my plants  is failing to 
thrive.  What should I do?"
>
>The  nursery worker says, "what plant is it?"
>
>I say, "I  don't know.  I don't believe in labelling my plants."  
>
>The nursery isn't going to send someone out to my home  to see what plant 
it is.  I don't have the time to try to figure  it out.  So the plant 
doesn't get what it  needs.
>
>Labels are never perfect.  They are always  probabilistic.  Labels can be 
switched or wrong.  But a good  label would tell a knowledgeable person what 
kind of plant I probably  have, how it fits in a taxonomy of plants, and 
what sorts of issues it  might have.  For example, there are tens of thousands 
of species  of rhododendrons.  But even if all we know is that the plant is 
a  rhododendron at least that would also mean it probably needs acid  soil. 
At least we would know to check for that issue.  
>
>Margaret
>
>
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Susan  R. Rakow, Ph.D. 
Clinical Associate Professor, Director of Graduate  Program in Gifted 
Education
Department of Curriculum and  Foundations 
Cleveland State University
2485 Euclid Ave.,  EB374
Cleveland, OH 44115-2214
_216-523-7296_ (tel:216-523-7296) 
_s.rakow at csuohio.edu_ (mailto:s.rakow at csuohio.edu) 

“Modern cynics and  skeptics see no harm in paying those to whom they 
entrust the minds of  their children a smaller wage than is paid to those to whom 
they  entrust the care of their plumbing.” -John F.  Kennedy

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