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<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The reality is that without the term, in many districts absolutely nothing
positive would happen for these kids. Indeed, is some places, nothing happens
now even <EM>with</EM> the label. The tragedy is that some people think that is
perfectly OK, and actively work to dismantle any standards of/for services for
gifted students. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/16/2014 10:00:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cdg.gradyllc@gmail.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<P>So we'd rather have the preferred term or right definition than better
opportunities for children at school? Anything else upsets our
delicate sensibilities? </P>
<P>I'm sorry. That sounds sort of wimpy and just sad.<BR></P>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Apr 16, 2014 9:50 PM, "Schultz, Robert" <<A
title=mailto:Robert.Schultz@utoledo.edu
href="mailto:Robert.Schultz@utoledo.edu">Robert.Schultz@utoledo.edu</A>>
wrote:<BR type="attribution">
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">A quick “chime in” from Northwest Ohio…..
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It is pretty hysterical (and sad, infuriating and the like) that a
position such as that proposed by the authors is even being considered. With
the redefinition of gifted and emphasis on talent development, the field
(well, some people in it, that is) are attempting to mainstream on academics
and performance. This aligns well with measurement and accountability, but
completely misses the mark for the vast majority of gifted kids. Making kids
fit the parameters of school has never worked for the gifted population. It
needs to be the schools who must meet the needs of the kids.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>There are many of us who know and firmly provide the social/emotional
needs emphasis that is the grounding to our field, and the children (and
families) that comprise our charge. Keep advocating and supporting the kids
in (and out of) the classroom. Keep working to point out where “the emperor
has no clothes”; and, the fallacies in the statements made by people who
have no experience working with the gifted.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And, remember, gifted is who you are—you cannot change it or hide it.
Talented is what you can do—and you can decide to show it or
not. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Relying on performance as the indicator of giftedness (or a rationale
for developing talent) is as myopic as expecting accountability testing to
fix education….</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Keep up the good work!! For kids….</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bob<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; FONT-VARIANT: normal; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times"><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Robert A. Schultz, Ph.D.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)"
color=#0000ff face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Gifted
Education & Curriculum Studies</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Times></FONT></P>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Professor</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">The University of Toledo</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">2801 W. Bancroft St.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT face=Times>2000 Z Gillham
Hall</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT face=Times>Mailstop
924</FONT></DIV>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT face=Times></FONT></P>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Toledo, OH</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> </SPAN></FONT><SPAN><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">43606</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 13px"><FONT
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A title="tel:(419) 530-2469"
href="tel:%28419%29%20530-2469" target=_blank value="+14195302469">(419)
530-2469</A></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A title="tel:(419) 530-2466"
href="tel:%28419%29%20530-2466" target=_blank value="+14195302466">(419)
530-2466</A> FAX</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(255,0,0)"
color=#ff0000 face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A
title=mailto:robert.schultz@utoledo.edu
href="mailto:robert.schultz@utoledo.edu"
target=_blank>robert.schultz@utoledo.edu</A></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(128,0,128)"
color=#800080 face=Times><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR></P>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Times" face=Times><I><FONT size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">See my homepage at:</SPAN></FONT></I></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(128,0,128)" color=#800080
face=Times><A title=http://homepages.utoledo.edu/rschult/home.html
href="http://homepages.utoledo.edu/rschult/home.html"
target=_blank>homepages.utoledo.edu/rschult/home.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(128,0,128)" color=#800080
face=Times><I>and visit <A title=http://www.giftedkidspeak.com/
href="http://www.giftedkidspeak.com/"
target=_blank>www.giftedkidspeak.com</A></I></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; COLOR: rgb(128,0,128)" color=#800080
face=Times><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: rgb(0,127,0)">What I look forward to is
continued immaturity, followed by death.</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Hoefler Text',serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman',serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: rgb(0,127,0)"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Webdings; COLOR: rgb(0,127,0)">—Dave
Barry</SPAN></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 16, 2014, at 9:22 PM, Colleen Grady <<A
title=mailto:cdg.gradyllc@gmail.com href="mailto:cdg.gradyllc@gmail.com"
target=_blank>cdg.gradyllc@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>I don't mean to be indelicate, but my concern here is not for
adults or institutions so I don't care what label is used or even if a
label is used.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>No disrespect to NAGC, but the idea of potentially changing an
organization's name as problematic is laughable. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>I care about what happens for these children. If ditching the term
"gifted" (or screaming like a chicken on Capitol Square at high noon)
improved opportunities for gifted children I would do it in a heartbeat.
It's just not that important. Really, it's not.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>And having lived through the trials, tribulations and fun of having
one of those highly gifted children (and living to tell the tale) I I know
all too well the social and emotional challenges for these kids and their
families. Knowing all that I know I would give my eye teeth to just having
these children respected as individuals and have their academic and
instructional needs of these students recognized and met. That's plenty
and so much more than what we have now. Expecting the school to be
everything for everyone is unrealistic and quite frankly weakens advocacy
efforts. </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 8:54 PM, <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A title=mailto:Ms118rbts@aol.com
href="mailto:Ms118rbts@aol.com"
target=_blank>Ms118rbts@aol.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><U></U>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV>Susan,</DIV>
<DIV>Your question, "If we throw away the word, then what is the
National Association for Gifted Children, in which all of these authors
are major players, all about?" is right on. </DIV>
<DIV>We wonder why we still keep fighting the same old battles with so
little forward progress. With third grade guarantee and other
hoops to jump through, students who have exceptional ability are often
neglected, especially when district finances are really tight. In
many cases, having the " gifted" label is the only thing that
gets students anything approaching rigorous - let alone beyond grade
level instruction and endless practice at things the student already
understands.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>It is hard to make progress when some in the field seem
to be giving those who do not believe in gifted education ammunition
like this article!</DIV>
<DIV>Margaret, I love your analogy!</DIV>
<DIV>Sally</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/16/2014 8:18:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, <A
title=mailto:susanrakow@earthlink.net
href="mailto:susanrakow@earthlink.net"
target=_blank>susanrakow@earthlink.net</A> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial>I don't agree either
because it presumes that giftedness is only about academic
intervention and school instruction and disregards, particularly among
the most highly gifted, the social and emotional aspects of
experiencing the world through a gifted mind and heart. Lots of words
have multiple connotations and sometimes the word "gifted" has
baggage...but so does autistic or Asperger's or diabetic or artist and
many others. And the fact is, that some children DO have abilities
that others don't, just as some children DO have disabilities that
others don't. <BR><BR>If we throw away the word, then what is the
National Association for Gifted Children, in which all of these
authors are major players, all
about?<BR>Susan<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>>From:
Margaret DeLacy <<A title=mailto:margaretdelacy@comcast.net
href="mailto:margaretdelacy@comcast.net"
target=_blank>margaretdelacy@comcast.net</A>><BR>>Sent: Apr 16,
2014 8:07 PM<BR>>To: <A title=mailto:OATAG@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:OATAG@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>OATAG@yahoogroups.com</A>, "<A
title=mailto:XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com</A>" <<A
title=mailto:XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>XL-PDX@yahoogroups.com</A>>, <A
title=mailto:Tagfam@listserv.icors.org
href="mailto:Tagfam@listserv.icors.org"
target=_blank>Tagfam@listserv.icors.org</A>, <A
title=mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu
href="mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target=_blank>Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</A><BR>>Subject:
[Ohiogift] Labelling the gifted<BR>><BR>><A
title=http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/04/16/28peters_ep.h33.html?cmp=ENL-EU-NEWS1
href="http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/04/16/28peters_ep.h33.html?cmp=ENL-EU-NEWS1"
target=_blank>http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/04/16/28peters_ep.h33.html?cmp=ENL-EU-NEWS1</A><BR>><BR>>Commentary<BR>>Gifted
Ed. Is Crucial, But the Label Isn't<BR>>By Scott J. Peters, Scott
Barry Kaufman, Michael S. Matthews, Matthew T. McBee, D. Betsy McCoach
<BR>><BR>>"But how does the label of "gifted" help teachers and
administrators determine the appropriate programming for students? In
our view, the term is not only unhelpful, but actually harmful to the
interests of bright students. "Gifted" is an educationally nondescript
concept, yet it also connotes an endowment that some students receive
while others do not. Moreover, the term seems to suggest that high
academic performance is a permanent quality, both due to chance and
applicable in all domains.<BR>><BR>>The truth is that
"giftedness" is irrelevant to K-12 educational decisions. What is
relevant is whether the instruction a child receives is sufficiently
rigorous to challenge that child. When that is not the case, there are
many potential causes." <BR>><BR>>Margaret
comments:<BR>><BR>>I disagree with this. I think the
authors are insensitive to the realities of a school environment where
time and energy are at a premium. These constraints make it
exceedingly unlikely that a child will have access to "rigorous"
instruction without a formal procedure for identifying the students
who are likely to need significant interventions.
<BR>><BR>>Suppose I went to a nursery and said "one of my plants
is failing to thrive. What should I do?"<BR>><BR>>The
nursery worker says, "what plant is it?"<BR>><BR>>I say, "I
don't know. I don't believe in labelling my plants."
<BR>><BR>>The nursery isn't going to send someone out to my home
to see what plant it is. I don't have the time to try to figure
it out. So the plant doesn't get what it
needs.<BR>><BR>>Labels are never perfect. They are always
probabilistic. Labels can be switched or wrong. But a good
label would tell a knowledgeable person what kind of plant I probably
have, how it fits in a taxonomy of plants, and what sorts of issues it
might have. For example, there are tens of thousands of species
of rhododendrons. But even if all we know is that the plant is a
rhododendron at least that would also mean it probably needs acid
soil. At least we would know to check for that issue.
<BR>><BR>>Margaret<BR>><BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>Ohiogift
mailing list<BR>><A
title=mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu
href="mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target=_blank>Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</A><BR>><A
title=https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift
href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift"
target=_blank>https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift</A><BR><BR><BR>Susan
R. Rakow, Ph.D. <BR>Clinical Associate Professor, Director of Graduate
Program in Gifted Education<BR>Department of Curriculum and
Foundations <BR>Cleveland State University<BR>2485 Euclid Ave.,
EB374<BR>Cleveland, OH 44115-2214<BR><A title=tel:216-523-7296
href="tel:216-523-7296" target=_blank
value="+12165237296">216-523-7296</A><BR><A
title=mailto:s.rakow@csuohio.edu href="mailto:s.rakow@csuohio.edu"
target=_blank>s.rakow@csuohio.edu</A><BR><BR>“Modern cynics and
skeptics see no harm in paying those to whom they entrust the minds of
their children a smaller wage than is paid to those to whom they
entrust the care of their plumbing.” -John F.
Kennedy<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ohiogift
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu
href="mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target=_blank>Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</A><BR><A
title=https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift
href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift"
target=_blank>https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift</A><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ohiogift
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu
href="mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target=_blank>Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</A><BR><A
title=https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift
href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift"
target=_blank>https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Ohiogift
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu
href="mailto:Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu"
target=_blank>Ohiogift@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</A><BR><A
title=https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift
href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift"
target=_blank>https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/ohiogift</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>