[Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Thu Sep 3 20:15:49 EDT 2015

And of course---I suppose this falls into the murky area between fact and fiction---Virginia Woolf has also achieved canonical status in almost an original sense:

http://www.philosophersguild.com/Virginia-Woolf-Secular-Saint-Candle.html

Click on the right-hand image below the candle for delightful petitionary and intercessory prayers---much needed at the commencement of a new academic year!

Todd

Dr. Todd Avery
Associate Professor of English
Coordinator, Online English B.A. Program
University of Massachusetts Lowell
O'Leary Library 481
61 Wilder Street
Lowell, MA 01854
978-934-4184
________________________________________
From: Vwoolf [vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu] on behalf of Mark Hussey [mhussey at verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 7:12 PM
To: 'Catherine Hollis'; 'Sarah M. Hall'
Cc: vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Woolf also has a thriving graphic life—Alison Bechdel’s Are You my Mother?, for example, and see https://twitter.com/kierongillen/status/419055477016629248<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_kierongillen_status_419055477016629248&d=AwMFaQ&c=TqceLeU8_c9CVUat-eLTFu19-lyGiWSvB_skZXlxt8Q&r=1X2r5CboA7r9ErqdHRH7dFb1WIvpNsjDz9iG-rg9_Dc&m=_6APjEKdtrb5kscsODIipbfS5xRugf8UELjLImqiQN0&s=SncaLSd2lQy_dOVU8XTm9cDJfnaJQWk5ysQBg5cPk_U&e=>

From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces+mhussey=verizon.net at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine Hollis
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:57 PM
To: Sarah M. Hall
Cc: vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

I can think of at least four fictional versions of George Mallory's life (with at least two films in production). Tanis Rideout, Above All Things; Justin Go, The Steady Running of the Hour; Dan Simmons, The Abominable. There's also a theatrical script (the name of which escapes me just now) about Mallory, Grant, and Vanessa Bell having some sort of polymorphously romantic evening. And there's a full-length fanfiction on Mallory with Virginia Woolf doing tarot cards and Adrian saying "our plays are scrummy" (whatever that means). Link to the Bloomsbury chapter here:
http://www.everestdream.blogspot.com/2006/08/chapter-nine-bloomsbury-1911-1913.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.everestdream.blogspot.com_2006_08_chapter-2Dnine-2Dbloomsbury-2D1911-2D1913.html&d=AwMFaQ&c=TqceLeU8_c9CVUat-eLTFu19-lyGiWSvB_skZXlxt8Q&r=1X2r5CboA7r9ErqdHRH7dFb1WIvpNsjDz9iG-rg9_Dc&m=_6APjEKdtrb5kscsODIipbfS5xRugf8UELjLImqiQN0&s=b9q3Ngr9hv3bz-aTVwsgjszdBrdcKr066PfrROEfTdw&e=>

I'd hate to think that untimely deaths lead to glamour and hence the proliferation of bio-fictions, but Mallory -- like Woolf -- seems to generate them.
Love this thread!
Catherine

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Sarah M. Hall <smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk<mailto:smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
Indeed, ‘that queer amalgamation of dream and reality, that perpetual marriage of granite and rainbow’, as one might say if one was a great writer.

________________________________
From: Danell Jones <danelljones at bresnan.net<mailto:danelljones at bresnan.net>>
To: 'Sarah M. Hall' <smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk<mailto:smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk>>; 'Mark Hussey' <mhussey at verizon.net<mailto:mhussey at verizon.net>>; 'Stuart N. Clarke' <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2015, 15:16

Subject: RE: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Can I say how much I love this list? Smart, generous, well-informed, and just dang funny!  Thank you.

As I work, I return from time to time to this quote from historian George Kenan.  It is a bit long, but so very thoughtful, I think it is work sharing:

“The truth is that the historian is not a mere purveyor.  He does not stand entirely outside the historical evidence he brings to your attention.  He stands in many ways inside of it.  He is himself in many ways a part of it.

True, he describes historical events.  And if he is a true historian, he describes them as accurately as they can be described on the strength of the available record.  But he was not there.  He did not see these events with his own eyes…and not having been there and not having seen them, what does he have to start with when he envisages these events and portrays them for us?  He has, as a rule, only the hieroglyphics of the written word as preserved in crumbling old documents, and sometimes a few artifacts that have survived the ravages of time and neglect—perhaps even a portrait or a drawing or, if he works in recent history, a photograph or two.  But these evidences only hint at the real story—they don’t tell it.  It is up to the historian to examine them critically and imaginatively, to select among them (for they are often multitudinous in number), to try to penetrate the reality behind them, and to try to depict them in a way that reveals their meaning.  And to accomplish this task, what does he had to draw upon?  Only what he already has within him: his knowledge, of course, of the historical background, his level of cultural sensitivity, his ability to put the isolated bit of evidence into the larger context, and, above all, his capacity for insight and empathy, his ability to identify with the historical figures he describes, his educated instinct for what is significant and what is not—in other words, his creative imagination.

            What emerges from this scrutiny is something that is, of necessity, high subjective.  It is not, and cannot be, the absolute and total truth.  It is, if the writer is a conscientious historian, as close to the truth as he can possibly make it.  But it remains a vision of the past—not the past in its pure form (no one could ever recreate that) but the past as one man, or one man alone, is capable of envisaging it, of depicting it.  It is perceived reality—reality in the eyes of the beholder—the only kind of reality that can have meaning for us other human being and be useful to us.  That is why every work of history—at least of narrative or explanatory history—is at least as revealing of the man who wrote it and the period in which it was written as it is of the people it portrays and the époque in which they lived.

“Remarks Delivered at a Birthday Party for the Slavic Division of the New York Public Library “ 1987, George F. Kennan

From: Sarah M. Hall [mailto:smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk<mailto:smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk>]
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 3:22 AM
To: Mark Hussey <mhussey at verizon.net<mailto:mhussey at verizon.net>>; 'Danell Jones' <danelljones at bresnan.net<mailto:danelljones at bresnan.net>>; 'Stuart N. Clarke' <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Fictionalized Danell: have you considered crowdfunding?
________________________________
From: Mark Hussey <mhussey at verizon.net<mailto:mhussey at verizon.net>>
To: 'Danell Jones' <danelljones at bresnan.net<mailto:danelljones at bresnan.net>>; 'Stuart N. Clarke' <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 September 2015, 21:44
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Michael Lackey’s new listserv on biofiction (details of which I posted last week) and his forthcoming book(s) on the subject are evidence of growing academic interest in these questions. I shall keep working on my fictionalized Danell if I see any money in it!  More seriously, my concern is how the fictional version of Woolf so often play into existing antagonistic paradigms promulgated by laddish novelists in the UK and other Bloomsbury bashers…

From: Danell Jones [mailto:danelljones at bresnan.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 1:54 PM
To: 'Mark Hussey'; 'Stuart N. Clarke'; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: RE: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

I love it!  Now I’m dying to know how did I get to the penthouse? Where do I keep my opium? The Des Moines thing was clearly a misprint in the Register.  ☺

More seriously, I am writing a biography of a African Edwardian living in London and am working very, very hard to ground everything in fact, even though I am dramatizing some scenes.  It is an interesting process. The whole genre of creative nonfiction is exciting, complex, challenging.

I’m always really interested hearing people’s thoughts about where the boundaries are in historical novels, creative nonfiction, and even sometimes, history.

Thanks!

Danell

From: Mark Hussey [mailto:mhussey at verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 10:48 AM
To: 'Danell Jones' <danelljones at bresnan.net<mailto:danelljones at bresnan.net>>; 'Stuart N. Clarke' <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: RE: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

“Danell Jones, a zoo keeper from Des Moines with a secret opium habit and a penchant for fast cars, leaned out of her penthouse window one snowy morning and ….”

I think, to paraphrase Woolf, there are many varieties of “truth” (just as there are many varieties of error…). Brenda Silver’s Virginia Woolf Icon is instructive here.  I agree, it is a great conversation!

mark

From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Danell Jones
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 9:54 AM
To: 'Stuart N. Clarke'; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

As someone who has fictionalized Woolf, may I defend creative writers by suggesting that Woolf quite liked the “truth” of fiction? “I prefer, where truth is important,” she wrote, “to write fiction.”

Her “true” story of the Dreadnought Hoax, for example, contains a good deal of fiction.

This is a great conversation!

Danell

From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart N. Clarke
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 5:04 AM
To: vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

See VW Letters #264, 270, 271.

Stuart

From: Sarah M. Hall<mailto:smhall123 at yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 11:11 AM
To: Mark Hussey<mailto:mhussey at verizon.net> ; 'Leslie Hankins'<mailto:lhankins at cornellcollege.edu> ; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> ; 'International Virginia Woolf Society'<mailto:ivwsociety at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Dear All,

I've contacted Priya Parmar to ask about the source for the table 'incident' and she says:
The incident with the table is definitely rooted in historical fact.  It was valuable and she did ask Violet for it and appalled her family.  I think it comes from a letter from Vanessa Bell.  It may be mentioned in a letter of Virginia's as well.  I do not think it pops up in Lytton Strachey's correspondence.  I wish I had my notes!  The dates I know are accurate.

I am not sure if that helps!  I have finally stored my research notes in America and feel a bit bereft that I do not have them to hand!

Obviously in a novel, the author will explore and speculate on people's emotions ('particular favourite', 'thundered in'), which can lead to difficulties if readers take it at face value. Also, when the (non-Woolfian) reader passes on their interpretation of the events, they add their own layer of emotion ('predatory', 'demanding', 'heirloom', 'horribly embarrassed'). In fact, it has been filtered through three people by the time it gets to us; not that I am questioning your interpretation of your colleague's words, Leslie.

But you're right, Mark. We can't help readers misinterpreting fiction as fact; any more than we can help people believing uncorroborated 'facts' they read in a non-fiction book or a newspaper, which it seems to me are more dangerous and inexcusable.

All the best,

Sarah

________________________________
From: Mark Hussey <mhussey at verizon.net<mailto:mhussey at verizon.net>>
To: 'Leslie Hankins' <lhankins at cornellcollege.edu<mailto:lhankins at cornellcollege.edu>>; vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>; 'International Virginia Woolf Society' <ivwsociety at gmail.com<mailto:ivwsociety at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 29 August 2015, 22:06
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Perhaps we need to institute a fact checking website to counter the endless flow of misinformation coming from novelists and tv series writers, film-makers and others who prefer fictional versions of VW et al. to anything based on the historical record!

From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces+mhussey=verizon.net at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Leslie Hankins
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2015 4:57 PM
To: vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>; International Virginia Woolf Society
Subject: [Vwoolf] curiouser and curiouser: the desk(s) of VW

Hello again!  The desk plot thickens.  A colleague at dinner (not a VW scholar) told me she had read somewhere that VW was really very predatory and rude about asking for and demanding a desk from a friend, a desk that was an heirloom, etc.  She said that Vanessa had been horribly embarrassed by the whole thing, etc, etc.

I felt at a loss because it didn't sound familiar, at least not the outrage of it all.

Finally she tracked it down to the novel Vanessa & Her Sister by Parmar.

The passage in the novel (set up as a journal entry) is rather harsh:

Saturday 5 May 1906--46 Gordon Square (end of a long day)

"Virginia asked Violet for a table.  Such an innocuous sentence, but what a rumpus it has caused.  It is apparently a particular favourite of Violet's and a valuable antique to boot.  Virginia just thundered in to tea at Violet's one afternoon and told her that she would quite like to have it.  Mother would be so distressed.  Thoby and Adrian are appalled--"One simply does not go about asking for other people's things, Ginia!"--and I am now resigned.  I was unsettled at first, wary as I am for any signs of imbalance or incongruity in Virginia, but seeing that it was just one of her peculiar moments of directness at work, I relaxed.  Violet was an utter dear and had the table delivered the next day.  Virginia is planning to have two of the legs sawn off, which makes the gift quite irreversible.

      And--Virginia, after listening to a stinging lecture from Thobs, has written twice today, pestering poor Violet for the price of the table."  (87)

I've looked at VW's letters to Violet (Vol 1 270, [May 1906] p 225ff  but haven't found anything about Vanessa's reaction.  Does anyone have any more information about this?  I've hardly looked at Patmar's book but my colleague noted that it made VW out to be rather demonic.

I'll keep looking but it does seem curious.

leslie
--
Leslie Kathleen Hankins
Professor
Department of English & Creative Writing

"Moreover, however interesting facts may be, they are an inferior form of fiction, & gradually we become impatient of their weakness & diffuseness, of their compromises & evasions, of the slovenly sentences which they make for themselves, and are eager to revive ourselves with the greater intensity & truth of fiction."
                                                         Virginia Woolf, "How Should One Read a Book?"

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--
Catherine W. Hollis, PhD
Assistant Editor, The Emma Goldman Papers
Instructor, Fall Program for Freshmen
U.C. Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720
hollisc at berkeley.edu<mailto:hollisc at berkeley.edu>