[Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Mon Oct 28 07:39:27 EDT 2013

Weren't we talking about the meaning of words? (or, if that is too
nit-picky, the montage of weirds)?

From: vwoolf-bounces+mhussey=verizon.net at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[mailto:vwoolf-bounces+mhussey=verizon.net at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On
Behalf Of Martin, James
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 4:28 AM
To: Neverow, Vara S.; Stuart N. Clarke; list', 'woolf
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Vara, if it all comes down to a matter of taste, oh, how I wish everyone
shared uniform aesthetics!

I agree that uniformity in language usage would squelch variety, but I'll
bet it would also nurture some healthy reactions in the form of
experimentation. 

There are simply too few people in the world who care about style in
language. Is it on any school curriculum anywhere? Is it important? Have I
been fooling myself all these years? I certainly hope not.

Jim

Von: vwoolf-bounces+j.martin=klett.de at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[mailto:vwoolf-bounces+j.martin=klett.de at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] Im
Auftrag von Neverow, Vara S.
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Oktober 2013 17:19
An: Stuart N. Clarke; list', 'woolf
Betreff: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Just another aspect of the discussion. At one level, I would agree that a
uniform style across the board and across the pond could be the best
possible solution to the various aggravations cause trauma for writers,
editors, and readers. However, the word "uniform" itself indicates that
variety would be frowned upon-neither language itself nor formatting
conventions are stable. Further, with regard to formatting, there isn't
really a best style. Once one moves into the placement of punctuation marks
in relation to quotation marks (UK vs. US), or the em-dash and en-dash
(totally house style), or the depth of the indentation of long quotations,
or whether to hyphenate, or whether to use one or two spaces, aesthetics
take precedence over strict rules. 

Vara 

From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
Date: Friday, October 25, 2013 4:30 AM
To: "list', 'woolf" <VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

It's understandable that it's hard to be consistent, but why not just use
"New Hart's Rules" (OUP)?  As authors (as Anne Fernald implies/infers), we
may not know them, but professional editors should know and apply their own
house styles.  After all, writers for US academic publications are always
being told to use the MLA style - something that is beyond me coz I don't
have the book(let?).

Stuart

From: Martin, James <mailto:j.martin at klett.de>  

Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:20 AM

To: Diana Swanson <mailto:dswanson at niu.edu>  ; list', 'woolf
<mailto:VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>  

Cc: mailto:paul at skandera.com

Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Diana, I'll give you the inside scoop on publishing companies and their
editors. When I arrived at my current position, I cared about every comma,
apostrophe and dash, be it an n-dash, an m-dash or a hyphen. There were
differences in the usage and I wanted to adhere to the rules - not that I
was a prescriptivist, mind you - but I simply wanted to do things correctly
and in a unified manner. It turns out that when I asked the experienced,
highly respected author of the company's style sheet which dash should be
used where, he said, "Relax, it's just a horizontal line. Nobody cares." 

The readers, it turns out, "didn't care" because they never complained to us
formally about any abuses of punctuation. So if no one complains, you can't
be doing anything wrong, right? 

However, when I was in school, I paid attention to these things from an
early age and thought other pupils using our textbooks might notice the
difference between random punctuation marks and those that seem to be used
systematically. I am fully aware that standards change over the years (the
interest in placing a comma before the final "and" in a series seems to wax
and wane along with skirt length, for example) and am able to accept such
changes. When you are working in a multilingual setting, and editors with
backgrounds in British and American English who have been living in Germany
for 20 years sit down at a table and try to set these rules in stone, it is
difficult. The difficulty lies partly in the fact that we have read so many
different publications during our studies and professional lives -
encyclopedias and dictionaries from various centuries, magazines,
newspapers, books, websites and textbooks (all with their own country of
origin and printing, their own style sheets and editors or obvious lack of
them) - that we begin to question what is indeed correct. We all had English
teachers throughout our schooling who categorized gross errors according to
their own educational backgrounds. And so they - and we - perpetuate
stylistic myths and there is no one authority to answer all our questions.
William Safire did it for years (and I loved his columns!), but I know of no
one in the digital age who has offered his or her services as he did. Any
takers?

Jim

Von: vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] Im Auftrag von Diana
Swanson
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Oktober 2013 15:38
An: list', 'woolf
Betreff: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

I have noticed more and more such mistakes in scholarly books and text books
over the last few years; I think that publishers have laid off too many
editors and copy-editors. The causes? Probably in large part the
consolidation of publishing companies, the pressure for quarterly profits,
and the cutting of university budgets (especially state universities) so
that university presses are being starved of funds.

>>> Mark Hussey <mhussey at verizon.net> 10/24/2013 8:25 AM >>>

"Too fussy" might be a euphemism for "able to use words correctly." 

From:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah M.
Hall
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:40 AM
To: Stuart N. Clarke; woolf list
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

There was an interview on Radio 4 yesterday with a Scotsman who thinks that
we are all too fussy about English grammar, and that phrases such as 'most
beautifullest' are quite acceptable because Shakespeare used these
constructions. The opposing view was that Shakespeare was writing poetry.
Downward spiral?

  _____  

From: Stuart N. Clarke <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>
To: woolf list <VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2013, 11:33
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Of course, we all make mistakes, but there's just no end to failures in
copy-editing.

There's something just not quite right about:

"This great church ... is crowned by the second largest Roman dome after St
Peter's."

In his TV show, Dave Gorman pointed out the faux spectrum, as in something
like "She has taken all the great tragic roles, from Ophelia to the Duchess
of Malfi".

Stuart

From: Jeremy Hawthorn <mailto:jeremy.hawthorn at ntnu.no>  

Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:17 AM

To: Stuart N. Clarke <mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>  ; woolf list
<mailto:VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>  

Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

And another one. In the last week I have seen "interred" used where
"interned" was correct, and vice-versa. Thus people of Japanese descent were
interred during WW2, and the body was interned after the funeral.

Jeremy H

  _____  

From:vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu
[vwoolf-bounces at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] on behalf of Stuart N. Clarke
[stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com]
Sent: 24 October 2013 11:51
To: woolf list
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

The 2 words are quite different, but I admit that I have to concentrate when
typing them to make sure I've chosen the right one!  I don't think they have
(yet?) become interchangeable.

Unlike "imply" and "infer": in the Antipodes, even in scientific papers, the
words are used interchangeably, although I was surprised to find the use as
early as 1931, e.g.:

M. H. C., 'The Scheme of Things', NZ Evening Post, Vol. CXII, No. 112 (7
November 1931), 9: '"Oxbridge" . plainly infers [sic] Oxford';
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d
<http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19311
107.2.40.1> &cl=search&d=EP19311107.2.40.1

Stuart

From:Sunjoo Lee <mailto:abgrund at naver.com> 

Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:38 AM

To: woolf list <mailto:VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>  

Subject: [Vwoolf] "principle" in place of "principal"

Hi, everyone,  

I have been a bit bugged by seeing "principle" when the word has to be
"principal." 

I saw that happening in doctoral dissertations and (in a few cases) articles
from well-known journals, or even books from good publishers. 

And this afternoon, from Heidegger's Kant and the Problem of Metaphysics
(Indiana UP, 1997), I found: 

"Thus the knowledge of beings in general (Metaphysica Generalis) and the
knowledge of its principle divisions (Metaphysica Specialis) become a
"science established on the basis of mere reason."" (6). 

And now I wonder, has "principle" been accepted as an alternate spelling of
"principal"? Only I haven't been aware of it? 

Dictionaries I use don't have such information. Has anyone else wondered
about this? 

Sunjoo 

  _____  

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