[Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?

Sat May 31 13:02:25 EDT 2025

What happened to TG108? Wouldn't that document be of any assistance?
Dimitris Mihailidis
Philadelphia

Sent from Dimitris' favorite Samsung Galaxy S22

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Date: 5/31/25 12:01 PM (GMT-05:00)
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Subject: Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list Digest, Vol 6, Issue 27

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Today's Topics:

   1. Siemens PET/CT shielding? (Ryan Fisher)
   2. Re: Siemens PET/CT shielding? (Szczykutowicz, Timothy P)
   3. Re: Siemens PET/CT shielding?
      (Palmer, Matthew R. (BIDMC - Radiology))

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 May 2025 16:21:15 +0000
From: Ryan Fisher <rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>
To: "intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu"
        <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?
Message-ID:
        <CH0PR10MB50020A816F655BA55B8EC3E79361A at CH0PR10MB5002.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello!

We?re in the process of building out a new PET/CT suite, which is going to include multiple uptake rooms immediately adjacent to the scanner room, with an existing CT on the other side of the uptake rooms. Blueprint snip below, and it?s a Siemens Trinion PET/CT with a Force in the other room, FWIW. I reached out to Siemens to see if they had any specs as far as ambient exposure rates to either scanner to prevent image quality issues and just got a generic:
[cid:image004.png at 01DBD15D.11E4E9A0]
which is not super helpful as the site?s Radiation Safety Officer.

I?m wondering if anyone has experience with shielding this kind of layout? Siemens is the one who provided the basic room layout, so presumably they?ve installed something similar before without issues and shielding to occupational limits in the area is sufficient to prevent any artifacts? I guess I?m just surprised they don?t have any kind of ?exposure rate > XX will affect camera performance? specification and am a little nervous of finding that out the hard way after everything is built and installed.

Thanks!
Ryan

[cid:image001.png at 01DBD15B.D4ECA7F0]

[A picture containing text, clipart  Description automatically generated]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.metrohealth.org/__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2bI2MZm0$ >
Ryan Fisher, PhD, DABR, MRSE (MRSC?)
Department of Radiology
Chief Diagnostic Medical Physicist
Radiation Safety Officer
O 216.778.5453|  M 216.978.5276  |  rfisher1 at metrohealth.org<mailto:rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>
MetroHealth Main Campus  |  2500 MetroHealth Drive, Cleveland, OH 44109
Associate Professor
[cid:image003.png at 01DBD15B.D4ECA7F0]

MetroHealth?s Mission: Leading the way to a healthier you and a healthier community through service, teaching, discovery, and teamwork. This email and all attachments that may have been included are intended only for the use of the party to whom/which the email is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee or the employee or agent of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from printing, storing, disseminating, distributing, or copying this communication.Contact us<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fs26.formsite.com/8dBVlg/sjvmjw2v0c/index.html__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2cgIw6NX$ >
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 May 2025 16:39:43 +0000
From: "Szczykutowicz, Timothy P" <TSzczykutowicz at uwhealth.org>
To: Ryan Fisher <rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>,
        "intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu"
        <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?
Message-ID:
        <DM4PR17MB6112D78832D47683EBC1BBE1AF61A at DM4PR17MB6112.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think the primary and scatter rates from the patient in the scanner with anatomy outside the region of interest would be way higher than scatter and primary from patients in the uptake room (like exponentially higher due to 1 over r squared and room shielding). The scanner will already be designed to deal with this (i.e., you are doing a whole body PETCT and you need X table positions, whenever the patient is in a table position not being scanned actively, those parts of the patient are still radioactive and way closer and not shielded to the scanner). The scanner will have internal shielding and detectors designed to minimize the impact of these out of scan FOV photons, and I would assume the line of response algos and similar software would deal with these pretty easily.

But I do CT and try to stay away from radioactive liquids as much as possible ? so take my answer with a grain of NaCl.

-stick

Timothy P. Szczykutowicz, Ph.D., DABR
Associate Professor
Departments of Radiology, Medical Physics and BME
University of Wisconsin Madison
Cell# 1-716-560-7751<tel:(716)%20560-7751>
Office# 1-608-263-5729
he/him/his

From: Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces+tszczykutowicz=uwhealth.org at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Ryan Fisher via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 11:21 AM
To: intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu
Subject: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?

WARNING: This email appears to have originated outside of the UW Health email system.
DO NOT CLICK on links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Hello! We?re in the process of building out a new PET/CT suite, which is going to include multiple uptake rooms immediately adjacent to the scanner room, with an existing CT on the other side of the uptake rooms. Blueprint snip below, and it?s
Hello!

We?re in the process of building out a new PET/CT suite, which is going to include multiple uptake rooms immediately adjacent to the scanner room, with an existing CT on the other side of the uptake rooms. Blueprint snip below, and it?s a Siemens Trinion PET/CT with a Force in the other room, FWIW. I reached out to Siemens to see if they had any specs as far as ambient exposure rates to either scanner to prevent image quality issues and just got a generic:
[cid:image004.png at 01DBD157.87C69520]
which is not super helpful as the site?s Radiation Safety Officer.

I?m wondering if anyone has experience with shielding this kind of layout? Siemens is the one who provided the basic room layout, so presumably they?ve installed something similar before without issues and shielding to occupational limits in the area is sufficient to prevent any artifacts? I guess I?m just surprised they don?t have any kind of ?exposure rate > XX will affect camera performance? specification and am a little nervous of finding that out the hard way after everything is built and installed.

Thanks!
Ryan

[cid:image005.png at 01DBD157.87C69520]

[A picture containing text, clipart    Description automatically generated]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.metrohealth.org/__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2bI2MZm0$>
Ryan Fisher, PhD, DABR, MRSE (MRSC?)
Department of Radiology
Chief Diagnostic Medical Physicist
Radiation Safety Officer
O 216.778.5453|  M 216.978.5276  |  rfisher1 at metrohealth.org<mailto:rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>
MetroHealth Main Campus  |  2500 MetroHealth Drive, Cleveland, OH 44109
Associate Professor
[cid:image007.png at 01DBD157.87C69520]

MetroHealth?s Mission: Leading the way to a healthier you and a healthier community through service, teaching, discovery, and teamwork. This email and all attachments that may have been included are intended only for the use of the party to whom/which the email is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee or the employee or agent of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from printing, storing, disseminating, distributing, or copying this communication.Contact us<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://fs26.formsite.com/8dBVlg/sjvmjw2v0c/index.html__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2cgIw6NX$>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 31 May 2025 02:15:40 +0000
From: "Palmer, Matthew R. (BIDMC - Radiology)"
        <mpalmer at bidmc.harvard.edu>
To: "Szczykutowicz, Timothy P" <TSzczykutowicz at uwhealth.org>, Ryan
        Fisher  <rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>,
        "intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu"
        <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?
Message-ID:
        <DM6PR06MB6124F786F3E65E4A65992885FF60A at DM6PR06MB6124.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I agree ? radiation due to patients being incubated in the vicinity of the scanner won?t be a PET image quality concern.

(Nice analysis BTW Tim ? not bad for a CT physicist!)

Matt Palmer

From: Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Szczykutowicz, Timothy P via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 12:40 PM
To: Ryan Fisher <rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>; intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu
Subject: [External] Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?

I think the primary and scatter rates from the patient in the scanner with anatomy outside the region of interest would be way higher than scatter and primary from patients in the uptake room (like exponentially higher due to 1 over r squared
I think the primary and scatter rates from the patient in the scanner with anatomy outside the region of interest would be way higher than scatter and primary from patients in the uptake room (like exponentially higher due to 1 over r squared and room shielding). The scanner will already be designed to deal with this (i.e., you are doing a whole body PETCT and you need X table positions, whenever the patient is in a table position not being scanned actively, those parts of the patient are still radioactive and way closer and not shielded to the scanner). The scanner will have internal shielding and detectors designed to minimize the impact of these out of scan FOV photons, and I would assume the line of response algos and similar software would deal with these pretty easily.

But I do CT and try to stay away from radioactive liquids as much as possible ? so take my answer with a grain of NaCl.

-stick

Timothy P. Szczykutowicz, Ph.D., DABR
Associate Professor
Departments of Radiology, Medical Physics and BME
University of Wisconsin Madison
Cell# 1-716-560-7751<tel:(716)%20560-7751>
Office# 1-608-263-5729
he/him/his

From: Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces+tszczykutowicz=uwhealth.org at lists.osu.edu<mailto:intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces+tszczykutowicz=uwhealth.org at lists.osu.edu>> On Behalf Of Ryan Fisher via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2025 11:21 AM
To: intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu<mailto:intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Siemens PET/CT shielding?

WARNING: This email appears to have originated outside of the UW Health email system.
DO NOT CLICK on links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Hello! We?re in the process of building out a new PET/CT suite, which is going to include multiple uptake rooms immediately adjacent to the scanner room, with an existing CT on the other side of the uptake rooms. Blueprint snip below, and it?s
Hello!

We?re in the process of building out a new PET/CT suite, which is going to include multiple uptake rooms immediately adjacent to the scanner room, with an existing CT on the other side of the uptake rooms. Blueprint snip below, and it?s a Siemens Trinion PET/CT with a Force in the other room, FWIW. I reached out to Siemens to see if they had any specs as far as ambient exposure rates to either scanner to prevent image quality issues and just got a generic:
[cid:image001.png at 01DBD1B0.5F313030]
which is not super helpful as the site?s Radiation Safety Officer.

I?m wondering if anyone has experience with shielding this kind of layout? Siemens is the one who provided the basic room layout, so presumably they?ve installed something similar before without issues and shielding to occupational limits in the area is sufficient to prevent any artifacts? I guess I?m just surprised they don?t have any kind of ?exposure rate > XX will affect camera performance? specification and am a little nervous of finding that out the hard way after everything is built and installed.

Thanks!
Ryan

[cid:image002.png at 01DBD1B0.5F313030]

[A picture containing text, clipart    Description automatically generated]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.metrohealth.org/__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2bI2MZm0$>
Ryan Fisher, PhD, DABR, MRSE (MRSC?)
Department of Radiology
Chief Diagnostic Medical Physicist
Radiation Safety Officer
O 216.778.5453|  M 216.978.5276  |  rfisher1 at metrohealth.org<mailto:rfisher1 at metrohealth.org>
MetroHealth Main Campus  |  2500 MetroHealth Drive, Cleveland, OH 44109
Associate Professor
[cid:image004.png at 01DBD1B0.5F313030]

MetroHealth?s Mission: Leading the way to a healthier you and a healthier community through service, teaching, discovery, and teamwork. This email and all attachments that may have been included are intended only for the use of the party to whom/which the email is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee or the employee or agent of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from printing, storing, disseminating, distributing, or copying this communication.Contact us<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/fs26.formsite.com/8dBVlg/sjvmjw2v0c/index.html__;!!KGKeukY!3PS0KEgOeqA1UXo4x_f2s8NGE7iK99QyRoGc9rghbSIdlO_OxiGH4sVoJFGtJUaaB9iUD6esIjlsLsFgoDV8tF5SwooQ5Y_bQZoA2cgIw6NX$>

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