[Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science, censorship

Sun Feb 9 11:49:59 EST 2025

Thank you.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, February 8, 2025, 9:08 PM, Wunderle, Kevin via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

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Dear Colleagues,

I want to take a moment to clarify the purpose and scope of this listserv. While discussions can often touch on broader topics, this forum is intended for mattersdirectly related to Diagnostic Medical Physics. The interpretation of what falls within that category can be broad, but the current discussion has moved beyond that scope.

This listserv has no resources, no role in directing policy, and no formal voice in policy-related matters, unlike our professional society. While I fully respect and support everyone's right to express their opinions, this listserv is not the appropriate venue for discussions on topics such as governmental policy, social issues, or other matters that—while important—do not pertain specifically to Diagnostic Medical Physics.

For those who wish to continue this conversation, Istrongly encourage the use of alternative platforms such as theAAPM Bulletin Board or the Annual Meeting Town Hall, which are designed to accommodate a wider range of professional discourse and are seen by our society leadership, who do have resources to direct action.

If for some reason anyone has an uncontrollable need to reply, please do so to me alone. Going forward, any further posts in this vein will result in a temporary suspension of posting privileges, regardless of the perspective expressed. 

Thank you all for your cooperation in maintaining aprofessional and focused forum.

Respectfully,

Kevin

Kevin Wunderle, PhD, FAAPM, FACR
Professor, Department of Radiology

Diagnostic Medical Physicist
395 W. 12th Avenue,

Floor 4, Room 424

Columbus, OH, 43210
216-245-5513 Mobile
kevin.wunderle at osumc.edu

From: Archangel <daitenshi at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2025 7:39 PM
To: Wunderle, Kevin <Kevin.Wunderle at osumc.edu>
Cc: intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science, censorship

I disagree that discussion among scientists about an issue that affects those scientists does not belong on a list dedicated to discussions among those scientists. For those who find any discussion irrelevant or uncomfortable, while still remaining

I disagree that discussion among scientists about an issue that affects those scientists does not belong on a list dedicated to discussions among those scientists. For those who find any discussion irrelevant or uncomfortable, while still remaining in bounds for the community, I recommend use of filters or the delete button.

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 12:32 PM Wunderle, Kevin via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

Let’s please end this thread at this point. I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with any side, only ask that for the betterment of the larger community we take further comment in this vein elsewhere, it is headed in a direction that is counterproductive to the intent of the list.

Respectfully,

Kevin

Kevin Wunderle, PhD, FAAPM, FACR
Professor, Department of Radiology

Diagnostic Medical Physicist
395 W. 12th Avenue,

Floor 4, Room 424

Columbus, OH, 43210
216-245-5513 Mobile
kevin.wunderle at osumc.edu

From: Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces+kevin.wunderle=osumc.edu at lists.osu.edu>On Behalf Of Hazle, John D via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2025 1:27 PM
To: intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science, censorship

Nicole, Please read the article. It starts with the commonly referenced 1. 8% number, but concludes that the real incidence of intersex individuals is more like 0. 02%. I’m trying to stick with science… John From: Nicole Ranger <nicoletranger@ yahoo. com>

Nicole,

Please read the article.  It starts with the commonly referenced 1.8% number, but concludes that the real incidence of intersex individuals is more like 0.02%.  I’m trying to stick with science…

John

From:Nicole Ranger <nicoletranger at yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 12:20 PM
To: "John Hazle, Ph.D." <jhazle at mdanderson.org>
Cc: "intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu" <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science, censorship

| 
SLOW DOWN! - EXTERNAL SENDER:nicoletranger at yahoo.com

Be suspicious of tone, urgency, and formatting.Do not click/open links or attachments on a mobile device. Wait until you are at a computer to confirm you are absolutely certain it is a trusted source.
If you are at all uncertain use the Report Phish button and our Cybersecurity team will investigate.
  |

Quick reply:  Web MD says 1-2%.  Let’s go with 2%.  2% of 340 million is 6.8 million.  That’s the number of people alone disenfranchised by a rigid biological binary.  (That does not include gender-related disenfranchisement.). We are scientists but more importantly we are medical professionals taking care of real people who have a right to exist and not be erased.

Let this end now. You are free to email me privately, John.

Nicole

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Hazle, John D via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

According to the Journal of Sex research, 99. 98% of people are either XX or XY (https: //www. tandfonline. com/doi/abs/10. 1080/00224490209552139). Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start. John From: "John Hazle, Ph. D. " <jhazle@ mdanderson. org>

According to the Journal of Sex research, 99.98% of people are either XX or XY (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!yetQPJHFtjufOdyD6tfD-IXAsbUOy-g9sqAUVYSiWnfcWpy1MxYnOhGetVbPOgidLZLU5YNUcJMoqAEWW38MjFyClIF5HNZ5LcpdC_Y$ ).  Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start.

John

From:"John Hazle, Ph.D." <jhazle at mdanderson.org>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 11:19 AM
To: Christina Brunnquell <christina.brunnquell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Government, science, censorship

According to the Journal of Sex research, 99.98% of people are either XX or XY (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!yetQPJHFtjufOdyD6tfD-IXAsbUOy-g9sqAUVYSiWnfcWpy1MxYnOhGetVbPOgidLZLU5YNUcJMoqAEWW38MjFyClIF5HNZ5LcpdC_Y$ ).  Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start.

John

From:Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Christina Brunnquell via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Reply-To: Christina Brunnquell <christina.brunnquell at gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
To: Gary <garyi at paxradia.com>
Cc: Bob Pizzutiello via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Government, science, censorship

| 
SLOW DOWN! - EXTERNAL SENDER:intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu

Be suspicious of tone, urgency, and formatting.Do not click/open links or attachments on a mobile device. Wait until you are at a computer to confirm you are absolutely certain it is a trusted source.
If you are at all uncertain use the Report Phish button and our Cybersecurity team will investigate.
  |

If the government is censoring scientific publications, how can we be sure that “the return to xx/xy biology” is appropriate? Thank you Bob for raising this issue as one worth encouraging GRAC and other related AAPM committees to respond to. 

If the government is censoring scientific publications, how can we be sure that “the return to xx/xy biology” is appropriate?

Thank you Bob for raising this issue as one worth encouraging GRAC and other related AAPM committees to respond to. I will join you in that effort alongside additional activism outside of this list and our professional society at the encouragement of our colleague.

Christina

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 9:52 AM Gary via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

Here's a thought.  Everyone who is outraged at the return to xx/xy biology should consider a career change.  Maybe greater satisfaction is awaiting you in the exciting field of activism, or politics.  I think there is a super abundance of forums for just those topics.  But there are very few good forums for medical physics, and I hope everyone will agree that we should stick to physics to avoid ruining this wonderful resource. 

---
Thanks,
Gary Isenhower

On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 08:09:58 -0500, Bob Pizzutiello via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

>When politics gets the science wrong, how do responsible scientists
>respond? I am raising a scientific issue of concern.
>
>One of the deeply troubling edicts of the current administration now
>demands retraction of manuscripts in preparation/publication that use
>any of the key words listed in the article below. In recent years
>every hospital I know has been asking medical physicists to advise on
>updating pregnancy policies to address the human and scientific
>reality that the simple terms “male” and “female” do not represent all
>patients. Science is what we do. 
>
>20+ years ago our profession struggled when a California Law
>pertaining to CT scanners included numerous errors that put compliance
>in conflict with scientific fact. 
>
>Perhaps some of our California colleagues would care to refresh our
>collective memories about the complex challenges they encountered as
>they fought for years to change the legislation to be less at
>opposition with science. 
>
>Of course, today’s situation is not based on and legislation.
>
>Finally, I offer my sincere concern to our colleagues at VA, FDA and
>other government agencies who must now face the demand to remove those
>terms while remaining true to the scientific reality that is not as
>simple as binary. They may not choose to be identified, but I plan to
>raise this concern with AAPM’s Government Affairs Committee.
>
>https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/faustfiles/114043?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2025-02-08&mh=cd63cfb826c6259b492e21ab9143b4a3&zdee=gAAAAABm4uQotrW8bAtCQc20dqv7I4FIVoNn-AjQzXpfT7y1hX3RdbBj0pWPFSXMZr70I1N9IwItsKCOPEDJuK5lBKxdutuJ8LQbsQZpQ3JAJoWoNI617-I*3D&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly*20Review*202025-02-08&utm_term=NL_DHE_Weekly_Active__;JSUl!!KGKeukY!0NuOcE-dyb2YN7RQZzdccCV8lgewnOvd9uF7eTzQRMajI4lBjJGw2yYT40EigeACFfPX2JcFKZ-m5jsUdRyYjrn-GSMmcORecAKmwfhO$
>
>We should probably focus any comments on the scientific and ethical
>challenge at hand resulting from this anti-scientific censorship, and
>resist blowing up this list with political rhetoric, no matter how
>strongly held. 
>
>Bob
>From Bob Pizzutiello, via iPad 

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