[Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science, censorship

Sat Feb 8 19:39:05 EST 2025

I disagree that discussion among scientists about an issue that affects
those scientists does not belong on a list dedicated to discussions among
those scientists. For those who find any discussion irrelevant or
uncomfortable, while still remaining in bounds for the community, I
recommend use of filters or the delete button.

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 12:32 PM Wunderle, Kevin via
Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:

> Let’s please end this thread at this point. I am neither agreeing nor
> disagreeing with any side, only ask that for the betterment of the larger
> community we take further comment in this vein elsewhere, it is headed in a
> direction that is counterproductive to the intent of the list.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> [image: The Ohio State University]
> *Kevin Wunderle, PhD, FAAPM, FACR*
> Professor, Department of Radiology
>
> Diagnostic Medical Physicist
> 395 W. 12th Avenue,
>
> Floor 4, Room 424
>
> Columbus, OH, 43210
> 216-245-5513 Mobile
> kevin.wunderle at osumc.edu
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
> <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces+kevin.wunderle=osumc.edu at lists.osu.edu>
> *On Behalf Of *Hazle, John D via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2025 1:27 PM
> *To:* intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science,
> censorship
>
>
>
> Nicole, Please read the article. It starts with the commonly referenced 1. 8%
> number, but concludes that the real incidence of intersex individuals is
> more like 0. 02%. I’m trying to stick with science… John From: Nicole
> Ranger <nicoletranger@ yahoo. com>
>
> Nicole,
>
>
>
> Please read the article.  It starts with the commonly referenced 1.8%
> number, but concludes that the real incidence of intersex individuals is
> more like 0.02%.  I’m trying to stick with science…
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> *From: *Nicole Ranger <nicoletranger at yahoo.com>
> *Date: *Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 12:20 PM
> *To: *"John Hazle, Ph.D." <jhazle at mdanderson.org>
> *Cc: *"intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu" <
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] FW: [EXTERNAL] Re: Government, science,
> censorship
>
>
>
> *SLOW DOWN! - EXTERNAL SENDER: nicoletranger at yahoo.com
> <nicoletranger at yahoo.com>*
>
> Be suspicious of tone, urgency, and formatting. *Do not click/open links
> or attachments on a mobile device. Wait until you are at a computer to
> confirm you are absolutely certain it is a trusted source. *
> If you are at all uncertain use the Report Phish button and our
> Cybersecurity team will investigate.
>
> Quick reply:  Web MD says 1-2%.  Let’s go with 2%.  2% of 340 million is
> 6.8 million.  That’s the number of people alone disenfranchised by a rigid
> biological binary.  (That does not include gender-related
> disenfranchisement.). We are scientists but more importantly we are medical
> professionals taking care of real people who have a right to exist and not
> be erased.
>
>
>
> Let this end now. You are free to email me privately, John.
>
>
>
> Nicole
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Hazle, John D via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list
> <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
>
> According to the Journal of Sex research, 99. 98% of people are either XX
> or XY (https: //www. tandfonline. com/doi/abs/10. 1080/00224490209552139).
> Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start. John From: "John Hazle, Ph.
> D. " <jhazle@ mdanderson. org>
>
> According to the Journal of Sex research, 99.98% of people are either XX
> or XY (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!z4KWauY26LjxwG9cqvK2ArRmjOAv0qCCJVZ8K_oXOwGCSNmvY9JO1IRIbtBoQj-mkoDfjiY9MhKO0AQn3Kg09-s28hQh6GUnu82tZG_1$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!3RQQNuFm2-C8n_I1oFg6Bgm34WGL8l4N4N0-Zv_YMINou1BWkb-Cbma9RPQKB7fxWW4N9T0H3axl3x-LTJN4CgTIxLgUtbeoCHslI2i9$>).
> Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *"John Hazle, Ph.D." <jhazle at mdanderson.org>
> *Date: *Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 11:19 AM
> *To: *Christina Brunnquell <christina.brunnquell at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Government, science,
> censorship
>
>
>
> According to the Journal of Sex research, 99.98% of people are either XX
> or XY (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!z4KWauY26LjxwG9cqvK2ArRmjOAv0qCCJVZ8K_oXOwGCSNmvY9JO1IRIbtBoQj-mkoDfjiY9MhKO0AQn3Kg09-s28hQh6GUnu82tZG_1$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224490209552139__;!!KGKeukY!3RQQNuFm2-C8n_I1oFg6Bgm34WGL8l4N4N0-Zv_YMINou1BWkb-Cbma9RPQKB7fxWW4N9T0H3axl3x-LTJN4CgTIxLgUtbeoCHslI2i9$>).
> Maybe that’s a good scientific place to start.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> *From: *Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Christina
> Brunnquell via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
> *Reply-To: *Christina Brunnquell <christina.brunnquell at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Saturday, February 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
> *To: *Gary <garyi at paxradia.com>
> *Cc: *Bob Pizzutiello via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: [Intl_DxMedPhys] Government, science, censorship
>
>
>
> *SLOW DOWN! - EXTERNAL SENDER:
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu
> <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list-bounces at lists.osu.edu>*
>
> Be suspicious of tone, urgency, and formatting. *Do not click/open links
> or attachments on a mobile device. Wait until you are at a computer to
> confirm you are absolutely certain it is a trusted source. *
> If you are at all uncertain use the Report Phish button and our
> Cybersecurity team will investigate.
>
> If the government is censoring scientific publications, how can we be sure
> that “the return to xx/xy biology” is appropriate? Thank you Bob for
> raising this issue as one worth encouraging GRAC and other related AAPM
> committees to respond to.
>
> If the government is censoring scientific publications, how can we be sure
> that “the return to xx/xy biology” is appropriate?
>
>
>
> Thank you Bob for raising this issue as one worth encouraging GRAC and
> other related AAPM committees to respond to. I will join you in that effort
> alongside additional activism outside of this list and our professional
> society at the encouragement of our colleague.
>
>
>
> Christina
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 9:52 AM Gary via Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <
> intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu> wrote:
>
> Here's a thought.  Everyone who is outraged at the return to xx/xy biology
> should consider a career change.  Maybe greater satisfaction is awaiting
> you in the exciting field of activism, or politics.  I think there is a
> super abundance of forums for just those topics.  But there are very few
> good forums for medical physics, and I hope everyone will agree that we
> should stick to physics to avoid ruining this wonderful resource.
>
>
> ---
> Thanks,
> Gary Isenhower
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 8 Feb 2025 08:09:58 -0500, Bob Pizzutiello via
> Intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list <intl_dxmedphys_wd_osu_list at lists.osu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >When politics gets the science wrong, how do responsible scientists
> >respond? I am raising a scientific issue of concern.
> >
> >One of the deeply troubling edicts of the current administration now
> >demands retraction of manuscripts in preparation/publication that use
> >any of the key words listed in the article below. In recent years
> >every hospital I know has been asking medical physicists to advise on
> >updating pregnancy policies to address the human and scientific
> >reality that the simple terms “male” and “female” do not represent all
> >patients. Science is what we do.
> >
> >20+ years ago our profession struggled when a California Law
> >pertaining to CT scanners included numerous errors that put compliance
> >in conflict with scientific fact.
> >
> >Perhaps some of our California colleagues would care to refresh our
> >collective memories about the complex challenges they encountered as
> >they fought for years to change the legislation to be less at
> >opposition with science.
> >
> >Of course, today’s situation is not based on and legislation.
> >
> >Finally, I offer my sincere concern to our colleagues at VA, FDA and
> >other government agencies who must now face the demand to remove those
> >terms while remaining true to the scientific reality that is not as
> >simple as binary. They may not choose to be identified, but I plan to
> >raise this concern with AAPM’s Government Affairs Committee.
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/faustfiles/114043?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2025-02-08&mh=cd63cfb826c6259b492e21ab9143b4a3&zdee=gAAAAABm4uQotrW8bAtCQc20dqv7I4FIVoNn-AjQzXpfT7y1hX3RdbBj0pWPFSXMZr70I1N9IwItsKCOPEDJuK5lBKxdutuJ8LQbsQZpQ3JAJoWoNI617-I*3D&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly*20Review*202025-02-08&utm_term=NL_DHE_Weekly_Active__;JSUl!!KGKeukY!0NuOcE-dyb2YN7RQZzdccCV8lgewnOvd9uF7eTzQRMajI4lBjJGw2yYT40EigeACFfPX2JcFKZ-m5jsUdRyYjrn-GSMmcORecAKmwfhO$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/faustfiles/114043?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2025-02-08&mh=cd63cfb826c6259b492e21ab9143b4a3&zdee=gAAAAABm4uQotrW8bAtCQc20dqv7I4FIVoNn-AjQzXpfT7y1hX3RdbBj0pWPFSXMZr70I1N9IwItsKCOPEDJuK5lBKxdutuJ8LQbsQZpQ3JAJoWoNI617-I*3D&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly*20Review*202025-02-08&utm_term=NL_DHE_Weekly_Active__;JSUl!!KGKeukY!0NuOcE-dyb2YN7RQZzdccCV8lgewnOvd9uF7eTzQRMajI4lBjJGw2yYT40EigeACFfPX2JcFKZ-m5jsUdRyYjrn-GSMmcORecAKmwfhO$>
> >
> >We should probably focus any comments on the scientific and ethical
> >challenge at hand resulting from this anti-scientific censorship, and
> >resist blowing up this list with political rhetoric, no matter how
> >strongly held.
> >
> >Bob
> >From Bob Pizzutiello, via iPad
>
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