[Heb-NACO] פלסטינים

Fri May 17 15:08:50 EDT 2019

As everything else in Israel (and LC classification, and most other things in life), this is a political question. It depends on what man/woman you would ask and on what street. ☺

From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Hebrew Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Reply-To: "Kuperman, Aaron" <akup at loc.gov>, Hebrew Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Date: Friday, 17 May 2019 at 12:04
To: 'Joan Biella' <jbiella2632 at gmail.com>, Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com>, Hebrew Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] פלסטינים

  1.  This discussion is a good example on why Romanization is a waste of time.
  2.  Does the typical “man in the street” in Israel care about authenticity and Arabic (or should dictionaries used by catalogers be descriptive or prescriptive)

From: Joan Biella <jbiella2632 at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:35 PM
To: Yossi Galron <jgalron at gmail.com>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Cc: Kuperman, Aaron <akup at loc.gov>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] פלסטינים

Dear friends,

This kind of question comes up regularly--probably with all romanized languages with a policy of following the advice of a particular, "authoritative" dictionary.  There are two choices:  (1) advise catalogers to follow the dictionary slavishly, adding additional access (246s and the like) with other likely romanizations; or (2) create a list of "exceptions" to the rule of following the dictionary.  At least when I was an active cataloger, Hebrew followed the first option, Arabic the second.  There is a list of approved Arabic romanizations which contradict the dictionary, and catalogers must be aware of it and of the need to check it regularly.

The policy of following the dictionary slavishly, even when what it suggests is ridiculous, standardizes the process of cataloging and the process of searching--catalogers know that if they search the dictionary-approved spelling, they will find all instances of the word they want (in theory, anyway).  Of course the patrons don't know what the dictionary says and why they don't find what they're looking for--hence the need for alternative access points.  Patrons also won't know what non-dictionary form catalogers have chosen (if they follow Option 2 above), so they'll always be at sea unless alternative access is provided.

Neither system is foolproof or easy.  At least Option 1 makes life easier for catalogers.  Option 2 leads to a free-for-all.

I don't see how we can please everybody, except by giving lots and lots of 246s.  So give them!

My two agorot.

Joan Biella

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 5:26 AM Yossi Galron via Heb-naco <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
and what about פלשתינאים?
Is it also with an F?

Yossi

On Fri, May 17, 2019, 08:22 Kuperman, Aaron via Heb-naco <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
Do users actually say that?   I don’t recall Hebrew speakers pronouncing that initial letter as other than a “P”?

Aaron Kuperman, LC Law Cataloging Section.
This is not an official communication from my employer

From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>> On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 10:44 AM
To: Gerstein, Nahid <nger at loc.gov<mailto:nger at loc.gov>>; Taub, Jeremiah Aaron <atau at loc.gov<mailto:atau at loc.gov>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] פלסטינים

Yes, I should have been more clear in my original email. Thank you for asking. Per E.-Sh., all words that are פלסטינ* are Falasṭin* (where * = wildcard). So it’s Falasṭini (masculine), Falasṭinit (feminine), Falasṭinim (masc. plural), Falasṭiniyot (fem. plural). The name of land is Falasṭin.

Thanks again and kol ṭuv, Jasmin

________________________________
From: Gerstein, Nahid <nger at loc.gov<mailto:nger at loc.gov>>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 7:26 AM
To: Taub, Jeremiah Aaron; Shinohara, Jasmin
Subject: RE: פלסטינים

Jasmin,
I am working on changing the romaniztion for this word.
How about “Palestin?”  or “Palestini?”

Thanks,

Nahid

From: Taub, Jeremiah Aaron <atau at loc.gov<mailto:atau at loc.gov>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 4:23 PM
To: Gerstein, Nahid <nger at loc.gov<mailto:nger at loc.gov>>
Subject: FW: פלסטינים

Nahid,

Please see Jasmin’s correction below. Could you make these corrections in the LC database? If it’s too many, I could ask Yisrael to split this with you.

Thanks so much,
A

From: Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2019 5:15 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel (heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>) <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>>
Cc: Taub, Jeremiah Aaron <atau at loc.gov<mailto:atau at loc.gov>>
Subject: פלסטינים

Hi, just a friendly notice that, per E-Sh., the above is romanized Falasṭinim, not Palesṭinim. (It is in the Romanization FAQchart<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__rascat.pbworks.com_w_page_109347700_Romanization-2520FAQ-23p&d=DwMGaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=tPhupptxc3iJD_aguos4yYwVn8L-XoTF6quFAv1XH-k&m=bLjau_buiaj0F1yTg_lwKaAM2yei26XBcBkv0KcICSg&s=QeqSqhDxZu1hoAUMH_tVYZk2K5o27wN6l7Bx9vz-cQ0&e=>.)

I don’t know if it’s a changed romanization, but we all have clean-up to do in our respective databases…

Kol tuv, Jasmin

---
Jasmin Shinohara
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
University of Pennsylvania
Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
3420 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
T. 215-746-6397
jshino at upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at upenn.edu>

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