[Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

Thu Jun 30 19:03:12 EDT 2016

I think that’s a great idea, Jerry Anne, especially given the technical challenges Rachel mentions.

Just one note about Word documents on the wiki: wiki does not play nicely with Word.  The only way to put a Word doc on the wiki is as a downloadable document (but then that is a static doc, which we’d like to avoid).  Otherwise the content has to be manually input (I had to do that for the Yiddish personal names chart that was originally on Heidi’s soon-to-come-down funnel page…).  This is only labor-intensive the first time, when migrating the data; once the page is set up, anyone with an user account can add to the page.

I’ve invited you to be a writer on the wiki.  Feel free to play around and create a new page under the Resources section.  Let me know if you’d like some guidance.  I think all the words on Princeton’s page are up to date with the exception of ma’ayan.

And let this be a general invitation to all others who’d like to contribute!  Just drop me a line and I’ll gladly grant you access.  ☺

Best wishes, Jasmin

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Dickel, Geraldine
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 4:53 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

Would it be a good idea to create a list of Romanization FAQs as a document in the AJL Cataloging wiki?  That way more than one person could edit it as needed and it wouldn’t be dependent on a particular person who might leave or retire.

I could get it started by taking the information from the Princeton site and putting it into a table in a Word document, which could then be posted on the wiki.  One problem is that the E-Sh. that I have is 1985, so I do not have the most current updates.

What do folks think?

Jerry Anne

(I’ll be off work until Tuesday July 5)

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Rachel Simon
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:40 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

I’ll be happy to update the list, but will have to find someone in Princeton who can do it: I gave the list to someone who has left long ago, and the systems have changed considerably since. So, don’t hold your breath.

Rachel

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+rsimon=princeton.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 10:22 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

Thank you so much for weighing in, Joan!  Ki-me'at it is.  (LC, please take note…)

With a hat-tip to Rachel Simon, there is such a list of Romanization FAQ’s<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__library.princeton.edu_departments_tsd_katmandu_hebrew_roman_errors.html&d=CwMGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=4dd_PgOXYx-hkFEruxwy7P-fnGTt986sp4bwD723Yyw&m=SlC0nL5KBCfc5gZ7X0nQunL8qF2SIW4T9xU9TuroqX4&s=DTsNrwY94KS4z3iRj4SE_yvWUpJNzFadQRQVXFJ5VtM&e=> (it’s now also linked on the wiki), but it does need to be updated to reflect the latest E-Sh. (specifically, מעין, which as of the 2012 update is now ma'ayan).  Rachel, would you please consider adding ki-me'at to the list?

Jasmin

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Joan Biella
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 9:03 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

If you can find the word by looking under both K and M, then you romanize according to the "more analytical" interpretation--ki-me'at in this case--so that a search under "me'at" will discover the phrase.
The same words cause trouble over and over.  Perhaps we should have a list of "words frequently misromanized," which of course would have to be checked and re-checked whenever a new Even-Shoshan edition comes out!
This might give some romanizers added confidence ... but I realize others would never think to consult the list.
Joan

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
If anything, it’s a sheva ha-merahef (לעניות דעתי), but that doesn’t address the question of whether or not the כ is here as a “little word”.

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+jshino<mailto:heb-naco-bounces%2Bjshino>=pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu<mailto:pobox.upenn.edu at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Yossi Galron
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 6:07 PM

To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

Okay - I have to consult גדולים וחכמים ממני if it is a שווא נע or a שווא נח
I guess if it is a שווא נח then it will be Kim'at and not Ki-me'at

Yossi

Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362<tel:%28614%29%20292-3362>,  Fax: (614)292-1918<tel:%28614%29292-1918>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__go.osu.edu_hebrewlit&d=CwMGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=4dd_PgOXYx-hkFEruxwy7P-fnGTt986sp4bwD723Yyw&m=SlC0nL5KBCfc5gZ7X0nQunL8qF2SIW4T9xU9TuroqX4&s=_DCGZdQzhbtZhQO2wTtjDdJgsiWkNuh79ZL0fTQlFT4&e=>

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
I agree, but most of the entries in LC since 2012 have kim’at.  Hence the question.

From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco-bounces at lists.osu.edu>] On Behalf Of Yossi Galron
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 5:53 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] romanization of כמעט

So the question is: Should it be Ki-me'at, or Kime'at?

I think it should be Ki-me'at - the entry in E.Sh. under מעט is much more elaborate then half the line under כמעט

(The same is also in the מילון אריאל המקיף of 2007)

Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
E-Mail: galron.1 at osu.edu<mailto:galron.1 at osu.edu>  or jgalron at gmail.com<mailto:jgalron at gmail.com>
Tel.: (614) 292-3362<tel:%28614%29%20292-3362>,  Fax: (614)292-1918<tel:%28614%29292-1918>
Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature: http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__go.osu.edu_hebrewlit&d=CwMGaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=4dd_PgOXYx-hkFEruxwy7P-fnGTt986sp4bwD723Yyw&m=SlC0nL5KBCfc5gZ7X0nQunL8qF2SIW4T9xU9TuroqX4&s=_DCGZdQzhbtZhQO2wTtjDdJgsiWkNuh79ZL0fTQlFT4&e=>

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino at pobox.upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
E-Sh. now has an entry for the word as itself, though it maintains a “see” reference to מעט.  Do we consider this to be a changed Romanization?  If so, I’ll add it to the chart on the wiki.

Thanks, Jasmin

---
Jasmin Shinohara
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
University of Pennsylvania
Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
3420 Walnut Street
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
T. 215-746-6397<tel:215-746-6397>
F. 215-573-9610<tel:215-573-9610>
jshino at upenn.edu<mailto:jshino at upenn.edu>

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