[Heb-NACO] Romanization Question

Thu Nov 5 13:59:07 EST 2015

Yes, with a  psi. psephos, a small pebble.

Barry

Dr. Barry Dov Walfish
Judaica and Theology Specialist
Collection Development Department and
Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library
University of Toronto Library
130 St. George St.
Toronto, ON
Canada M5S 1A5

Phone: 416-946-3176 or 416-978-4319
Fax:  416-978-1667 or 416-946-0635
e-mail: barry.walfish at utoronto.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+barry.walfish=utoronto.ca at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Neil Manel Frau-Cortes
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 1:49 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco at lists.osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanization Question

Good question. I think with psi. At least the word ψήφος exists in modern Greek...

Neil M. Frau-Cortes, Ph.D.
Judaica, Hebraica and Metadata Cataloger McKeldin Library University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 Phone (301) 405-9337 nfrau at umd.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+nfrau=umd.edu at lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Joan Biella
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 1:17 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanization Question

Is the Greek word spelled with the letter psi, or with pi and sigma?

On November 5, 2015, at 8:54 AM, Heidi G Lerner <lerner at stanford.edu> wrote:

What I have found is interesting: 

My Even-Shoshan edition ( copyright 2003, 2006 printing)

has: Pesefas (from Greek: pesefos); Alkalay has "Pesefas".

Here is the text from our manual:

The first sheṿa in a foreign loan word with an initial consonantal cluster is generally treated as a sheṿa naḥ. For correct romanization it is necessary to consult Even-Shoshan and Alcalay on a case-by-case basis. These initial clusters retain the effect of vowel "heightening"--the sheṿa of the prefixes be-, ke-, and le- becomes a ḥiriḳ: bi-, ki-, li-.
ALA-LC Romanization:
Israel. Lishkah ha-merkazit Ii-sṭaṭisṭiḳah.
ישראל. לשכה המרכזית לסטטיסטיקה.
Universiṭah ha-‘Ivrit bi-Yerushalayim. Makhon li-ḳriminologyah.
אוניברסיטה העברית בירושלים. מכון לקרימינולוגיה
but:
deramah [cf. Alcalay; translation: drama] A few loan words are also treated as though exempt from the rules governing the aspiration/ non-aspiration of b/v, k/kh, and p/f when preceded by an open syllable.
be-Polin [not: be-Folin] (translation: in Poland)

I also checked Jastrow and it has have (citing Misnhah Avot: Schecter edition)

Pesipas (from the Hebrew: פס; פסיסה)

All you Hebrew grammarians out there, can you step in?

If we cannot come to a consensus I would suggest that we go with "pesefas" since that is the vocalization that is provided in both ES and Alkalay

Best, Heidi

Heidi G. Lerner
Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Metadata Dept.
Stanford University Libraries
Stanford, CA 94305-6004
ph: 650-725-9953
fax: 650-725-1120
e-mail: lerner at stanford.edu

________________________________________
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu at lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Robert M. TALBOTT <rtalbott at library.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 7:47 AM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanization Question

Hi Smadar

Looking in ES, the romanization is given as "pesifas," with a citation from Avot. My two cents on the matter is that though this is a loan word, it's been in the language long enough to be naturalized.

When in doubt, check the HCM:
http://online.sfsu.edu/biella/HCM2/hcm.html.  Click on  "Hebrew and Yiddish romanization" then scroll down to "Foreign loan words." We are apparently no longer obliged to check Alcalay, though it's still of use.

Bob

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:01 AM, sshtuhl <sshtuhl at upenn.edu> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a question about the word פסיפס, which is originated from 
> Greek. As a foreign-loan word it should be Romanized as 'psefas' but 
> in entries it appears as 'pesefas'. Does anyone have any thoughts on this discrepancy?
> Thanks,
> Smadar
>
> --
> Smadar Shtuhl
> Hebraica Library Specialist
> University of Pennsylvania
> Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center
> 3420 Walnut Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206
> F. 215-573-9610
> sshtuhl at upenn.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Heb-naco mailing list
> Heb-naco at lists.osu.edu
> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco

--
Bob Talbott

Principal cataloger/Hebraica cataloger

UC Berkeley

250 Moffitt

Berkeley, CA 94720

יול נא מי באי מאי בלאק טעלעסקאפ
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