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According to the “Oxford Names Companion”, Ellen is English and cognate with Helen. My father’s sister, Nell, was an Ellen, and they were as London as you can get. In fact, my father was born in Pimlico, but his mother would have been a bit
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<DIV>According to the “Oxford Names Companion”, Ellen is English and cognate
with Helen. My father’s sister, Nell, was an Ellen, and they were as
London as you can get. In fact, my father was born in Pimlico, but his
mother would have been a bit long in the tooth to be suckling her young in 1923
– in any case, being poorish, they moved a lot, from one rented accommodation to
another, and had long since left the more dubious part of Pimlico near Victoria
Station.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Meanwhile, in Lasswade (Gandercleuch to Walter Scott fans), my maternal
grandparents had followed the Scottish naming system for their first 4
daughters, but, when they came to my mother, my grandmother reached out to a
wider family name on her side, and sent my grandfather out to register my mother
as Ellen. For whatever reason, he misheard and registered her as Helen – a
name she much preferred. Unfortunately, no one used it, except the father
of her best friend, Naomi Sneddon. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(I seem to have strayed into anecdotes from over 100 years ago. . .
.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stuart</DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ellen.moody@gmail.com>Ellen
Moody</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 13, 2022 11:49 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com>Stuart N. Clarke</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vwoolf@lists.osu.edu>Woolf list</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vwoolf] Daisy</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV dir=ltr>I'm almost afraid to come out with new examples for that will cause
many counter-examples to appear. But only almost. Some of these strange
(weird) new
<DIV>names in the US come from TV shows, where characters and the actors
themselves regularly have such names. Kyle I am told, was the name
of a character</DIV>
<DIV>in a popular TV show. I never heard the name before. An actress
set to play Anne Elliot in Persuasion is named Dakota Johnson - now that is a
Native American</DIV>
<DIV>word or name and is found in two US western states: North and South
Dakota.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I see that in Mitford's Love in a Cold Climate a character named Lady
Montdore associates Daisy among other names (like Nellie) with English
housemaids.</DIV>
<DIV>I would have said Irish -- as in Ellen. Ellen is familiar as an Irish
housemaid's name but it is also the name of heroines (the first I can think of
is in a novel</DIV>
<DIV>by Mary Brunton called Discipline (perhaps 1815?). I have a personal story
about the name Daisy I didn't have the nerve to tell before, but here goes.
When</DIV>
<DIV>my older daughter had not yet been born, I was casting about for a name and
I thought of Daisy. I like the name. But when I told my mother, she was
</DIV>
<DIV>horrified; I told another friend who urged me not to. To both the name was
somehow <SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: roboto,arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(32,33,36)">déclassé.
So I didn't. She is Laura Caroline. I would have</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: roboto,arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(32,33,36)">preferred
Caroline Laura but my husband said no no no. Caroline is too English. He
was British (English).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: roboto,arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(32,33,36)"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: roboto,arial,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(32,33,36)">Ellen
(who am not Irish)</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 5:23 AM Stuart N. Clarke
via Vwoolf <<A>vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</A>> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV
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we’re discussing he name Daisy in the UK, then American examples are
irrelevant. (What extraordinary names Americans have – so have the British
now. And the spellings! You hardly ever come across Jill as an abbreviation of
Gillian – it’s </DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>If we’re discussing he name Daisy in the UK, then American examples are
irrelevant. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(What extraordinary names Americans have – so have the British now.
And the spellings! You hardly ever come across Jill as an abbreviation
of Gillian – it’s always Gill with a soft g. Poor Mrs Woolf – she got an
(unpublished) letter from Alyse Gregory in 1924, and replied “Dear Mr
Gregory”. One used to feel with these weird spellings that, since in
this case it’s not spelled Alice, it must be pronounced Aleeze or some
such.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And the French are irrelevant too:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>“They all seemed to be old friends of his [Sauveterre’s], called him
Fabrice and had a thousand questions to ask about mutual acquaintances in
Paris, fashionable foreign ladies with such unfashionable names as Norah,
Cora, Jennie, Daisy, May, and Nellie.</DIV>
<DIV>“’Are all Frenchwomen called after English housemaids?’ Lady Montdore
asked crossly ...”</DIV>
<DIV>
(“Love in a Cold Climate” (1949), ch 4)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Stuart</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=mefoleyuk@gmail.com>Mary Ellen Foley</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 8, 2022 12:47 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=mhussey@verizon.net>mhussey@verizon.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no>Jeremy Hawthorn</A> ; <A
title=stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com>Stuart N. Clarke</A> ; <A
title=vwoolf@lists.osu.edu>vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vwoolf] Daisy</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex"><BR>>
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14px">Then again, there’s Daisy Fellowes, aka
Marguerite Séverine Philippine Decazes de Glücksberg …</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>ANd Daisy Buchanon in <I>The Great Gatsby, </I>1925 -- definitely
upper-crusty.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>mef
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Vwoolf
mailing list<BR><A target=_blank>Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</A><BR><A
href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>