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I'm so enjoying this exchange, especially Stuart's imagining of his parents' conversation. My brother (Stewart, as it happens) was known as the Deill's ain bucky - the Devil's own child and a far cry from Lord Muck. As for typing classes .
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<div><font size="3"><font size="2">I'm so enjoying this exchange, especially Stuart's imagining of his parents' conversation. My brother (Stewart, as it happens) was known as the Deill's ain bucky - the Devil's own child and a far cry from Lord Muck. As for typing classes . . . when I felt I couldn't take my broken heart back to college, I was enrolled by my father in Colonel Soule's secretarial school in New Orleans. I studied typing, shorthand, and business English for eight hours a day over one summer - and fled back to college in the fall.</font><br>
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<div><font size="2">Marcia</font><br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu<br>
To: vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br>
Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2022 3:07 am<br>
Subject: Vwoolf Digest, Vol 119, Issue 23<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> 1. Re: "the 'ignorance' of privilege" (Jeremy Hawthorn)<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> 2. Re: "the 'ignorance' of privilege" (Stuart N. Clarke)<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:12:45 +0000<br>
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<div dir="ltr">From: Jeremy Hawthorn <<a ymailto="mailto:jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no" href="mailto:jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no">jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">To: "<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>" <<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "the 'ignorance' of privilege"<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> <<a ymailto="mailto:SV0P279MB0410174656BD1373EB680A44E7F09@SV0P279MB0410.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM" href="mailto:SV0P279MB0410174656BD1373EB680A44E7F09@SV0P279MB0410.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">SV0P279MB0410174656BD1373EB680A44E7F09@SV0P279MB0410.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">The supreme irony in all this is that we would all have benefitted from a basic course in typing at school. With work on PCs well-nigh universal, the skill of typing is accordingly almost universally useful. As a boy in England I was forced to study woodwork and metalwork, at both of which I was so incompetent that one teacher hit me hard across the head with a length of wood. Ah, the good old days. Had I learned to type properly, I might this very moment be using more that two fingers to type. Mind you, that is double the number used by an old friend who worked as a lawyer all his life. So women in the professions who were forced to take courses in typing have the last laugh on us men here I think.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Jeremy H<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Fra: Vwoolf <<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>> P? vegne av Danell Jones via Vwoolf<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sendt: l?rdag 16. april 2022 22:32<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Til: Mary Ellen Foley <<a ymailto="mailto:mefoleyuk@gmail.com" href="mailto:mefoleyuk@gmail.com">mefoleyuk@gmail.com</a>>; Stuart N. Clarke <<a ymailto="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Kopi: <a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Emne: Re: [Vwoolf] "the 'ignorance' of privilege"<br>
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<div dir="ltr">My mother also told me that I had to take a typing class in high school because then I would always have something to ?fall back on.? As I remember it, secretarial work was considered not just safe but respectable and even a little upwardly ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> Report Suspicious <<a href="https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/KGKeukY!sSQT10yJiY0IqrMRvC6qfG79i0EVOqvSFxlW4bnp_TG5x7G7B1cxg2mhNkUI0KzdAfuU_nAfriiN4b80$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/KGKeukY!sSQT10yJiY0IqrMRvC6qfG79i0EVOqvSFxlW4bnp_TG5x7G7B1cxg2mhNkUI0KzdAfuU_nAfriiN4b80$</a>> ?<br>
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<div dir="ltr">My mother also told me that I had to take a typing class in high school because then I would always have something to ?fall back on.?<br>
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<div dir="ltr">As I remember it, secretarial work was considered not just safe but respectable and even a little upwardly mobile. (Neither of my grandmothers could type.) There was a sense that being a secretary in an office was a safe, professional job that meant you didn?t have to do manual labor.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I don?t know if this is an American thing, but even though I had a typical middle-class upbringing, a fear of losing everything was threaded through it. Poverty and failure lurked in the shadows. My dad was an Okie, so that probably explains a lot.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Danell<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent from Mail<<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986__;!!KGKeukY!jqrSQRZMBTz2bdCXMuPWJXIGhp6tJVxJoyR_JIhgjNVCyRSwhKWDxCxfySg_mTEAEYA$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986__;!!KGKeukY!jqrSQRZMBTz2bdCXMuPWJXIGhp6tJVxJoyR_JIhgjNVCyRSwhKWDxCxfySg_mTEAEYA$</a>> for Windows<br>
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<div dir="ltr">From: Mary Ellen Foley via Vwoolf<mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2022 12:41 PM<br>
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<div dir="ltr">To: Stuart N. Clarke<mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Cc: <a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "the 'ignorance' of privilege"<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Ah, yes. Something to fall back on. I was majoring in chemistry, with a place at Stanford for graduate school, and my mother, who was paying for books and living expenses (tuition was via scholarship), insisted that I take some classes in the ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Ah, yes. Something to fall back on. I was majoring in chemistry, with a place at Stanford for graduate school, and my mother, who was paying for books and living expenses (tuition was via scholarship), insisted that I take some classes in the education department because, and I do quote exactly here, "If a woman can't do anything else, she can always teach or be a secretary."<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Bless her heart. What a lovely vote of confidence! At least that's how I took it at the time, though she might have meant "If a woman isn't permitted to do anything else..." And the education classes were utter DRECK -- I despair for Kentucky schools, I really do --<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Then again, she might have had a point. I have an unfashionable regional accent, and a friend of mine who also moved to the Bay Area ended up working on a loading dock, because companies wouldn't hire her as a front-desk receptionist because of her accent. I am sure that, when I did go to get a job, I probably had a harder time of it than those who sounded like the announcers on TV.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">That was -*cough*- decades ago. I do hope things have changed...<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Mary Ellen<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 11:04 AM Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf <<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I know this isn?t really relevant to the listserv, but it will resonate with those of you who (like me) come from working-class backgrounds: <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gal8iIhX-Xnm6NuOGplp4AWk0vqeDA9kAEqydb1yH8zSkehSuEnxGxkbHaK7FPMNyhc$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gal8iIhX-Xnm6NuOGplp4AWk0vqeDA9kAEqydb1yH8zSkehSuEnxGxkbHaK7FPMNyhc$ </a><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gH-UkaXScOEYmSgt3p90A7JoQTQcJ4dN6O9jRlCDe2ycgM-BLLdgP2srmOn2E73fqRA$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gH-UkaXScOEYmSgt3p90A7JoQTQcJ4dN6O9jRlCDe2ycgM-BLLdgP2srmOn2E73fqRA$</a>> I saw a black woman on the TV the other day, ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I know this isn?t really relevant to the listserv, but it will resonate with those of you who (like me) come from working-class backgrounds:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gal8iIhX-Xnm6NuOGplp4AWk0vqeDA9kAEqydb1yH8zSkehSuEnxGxkbHaK7FPMNyhc$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!gal8iIhX-Xnm6NuOGplp4AWk0vqeDA9kAEqydb1yH8zSkehSuEnxGxkbHaK7FPMNyhc$ </a><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!jqPe0meTvr01hNVZznnvkz6Z06TNnQ2kd0H0ZG40o5HZ1vHKY6J7qH1mDiJtWqW9MV4$" target="_blank" fg_scanned="1">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61107909__;!!KGKeukY!jqPe0meTvr01hNVZznnvkz6Z06TNnQ2kd0H0ZG40o5HZ1vHKY6J7qH1mDiJtWqW9MV4$</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">I saw a black woman on the TV the other day, who went to the careers? advisor at school and said she wanted to go to university. ?What about secretarial college??<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Which reminds me of Sylvia Plath and her mother: go to secretarial college and you?ll have something to fall back on. From memory, in ?The Bell Jar? she didn?t want to type interesting letters for some man, but write interesting letters herself.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I remember telling a Woolfian acquaintance that I had never wanted to work, never had any idea of what to do. She was surprised/shocked: ?What about publishing??<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I then fantasised about going back in time and telling my parents that I wanted to go into publishing, and their subsequent conversation in their bedroom:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">?Where?s Lord Muck got *this* idea from??<br>
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<div dir="ltr">?Well, he hasnae got it from me.?<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Stuart<br>
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<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Vwoolf mailing list<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><a ymailto="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:07:39 +0100<br>
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<div dir="ltr">From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <<a ymailto="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">To: <<a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] "the 'ignorance' of privilege"<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:EC4E53BBBC254FCFB54AD7FF9578C441@StuartHP" href="mailto:EC4E53BBBC254FCFB54AD7FF9578C441@StuartHP">EC4E53BBBC254FCFB54AD7FF9578C441@StuartHP</a>><br>
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<div dir="ltr">If you live in a country that doesn?t have a national health service nor something equivalent to a welfare state, then it is reasonable to worry about money. Hence, Leslie Stephen?s panicking about money. Of course, Julia had a lot of money behind her (where did it all go to?), but, suppose Leslie had been the sole breadwinner (as it were), what would have happened to the family if he had died suddenly? Cf. the effect of Leonard?s father?s death on the family (and see Angus Wilson?s ?The Middle Age of Mrs Eliot?).<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I believe that a middle-class Victorian paterfamilias was recommended to save a substantial proportion of his yearly income to cope with various rainy days.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">(I feel I may have sidetracked people over typing ? it really was the article that resonated with me.)<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Stuart<br>
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<div dir="ltr">From: Danell Jones <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2022 9:31 PM<br>
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<div dir="ltr">To: Mary Ellen Foley ; Stuart N. Clarke <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Cc: <a ymailto="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a> <br>
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: RE: [Vwoolf] "the 'ignorance' of privilege"<br>
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<div dir="ltr">[snip]<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I don?t know if this is an American thing, but even though I had a typical middle-class upbringing, a fear of losing everything was threaded through it. Poverty and failure lurked in the shadows. My dad was an Okie, so that probably explains a lot.<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Danell<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br>
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<div dir="ltr">End of Vwoolf Digest, Vol 119, Issue 23<br>
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