<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dear Stuart,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thank you so much for your help! This was really enlightening. I really think it must have been W.W. Asquith, as you pointed out. I am going to write a note on it, stating that although there is no certainty about it, this must probably be the case.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thank you once again.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Ana Carolina</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 4:56 PM <<a href="mailto:vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Vwoolf mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup (Stuart N. Clarke)<br>
2. Re: A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup (Stuart N. Clarke)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 17:18:22 +0100<br>
From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <<a href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" target="_blank">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup<br>
Message-ID: <EFEB34CF21EA478687A806E46441CC21@StuartHP><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
This is a very interesting question. I?m fairly (not 100%) sure I?ve got the answer right.<br>
<br>
It appears to have been the nickname of W. W. Asquith, ?brother of the future Prime Minister (known because of his sarcastic tongue as ?the Pup??but Frank came to like him)?. This I found using Google Books (bio. of Francis Younghusband), but I can?t see any more online. Anyway, Thoby was in Asquith?s (boarding) House at Clifton College.<br>
<br>
I haven?t quite grasped why a sarcastic tongue would result in someone being called a ?pup?. The closest I can spot in the OED is <br>
A young man, esp. one who is stupid, arrogant, or unpleasant.Stuart<br>
(Day 118)<br>
<br>
From: Carol Mesquita via Vwoolf <br>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 4:37 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a> <br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
Hope you are all safe and well.<br>
<br>
I am translating "A Sketch of the Past" into Brazilian Portuguese and came across a term that seemed obscure to me. The passage in which it appears is about Thoby:<br>
<br>
He held his own, he put up with disagreeables; he was far more philosophic, because more in his element than Adrian was. And he exacted his rights. The Pup had to apologise when he put another boy over him as head of the house; he was not going to be passed over. (Harcourt, 1985, p. 126.) <br>
<br>
I could not find what, or who, "the Pup" is. If anybody could help, that would be great. I thank you in advance!<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Ana Carolina Mesquita<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:41 PM <<a href="mailto:vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Woolf sighting (K L Levenback)<br>
2. really obscure Elizabethan reference (Elisa Sparks)<br>
3. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)<br>
4. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)<br>
5. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (Rebecca Duncan)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:30:20 -0400<br>
From: "K L Levenback" <<a href="mailto:kllevenback@att.net" target="_blank">kllevenback@att.net</a>><br>
To: "" <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] Woolf sighting<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:Mailbird-3203fb44-5107-4079-8c26-66ab49873510@att.net" target="_blank">Mailbird-3203fb44-5107-4079-8c26-66ab49873510@att.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
>From yet another sharp-eyed friend:<br>
<br>
I just saw this: "But the spirit of the characters seems most apparent to me in her 2012 picture book, Virginia Wolf?illustrated by Isabelle Arsenault?a storybook fantasia on the childhood relationship between Vanessa Stephen and her sister Virginia, who would one day be known as Virginia Woolf. It begins, not unlike Frog and Toad are Friends, with Virginia nestled in bed, refusing to get out. Vanessa narrates, ?One day my sister Virginia woke up feeling wolfish.?":<br>
<a href="https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html</a> [<a href="https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html</a>]<br>
?<br>
Hope you are having a happy 4th!<br>
<br>
Seconding the above--<br>
Karen Levenback<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 00:34:22 +0000<br>
From: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:MWHPR06MB332860B52270FA1939BE9704DD660@MWHPR06MB3328.namprd06.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR06MB332860B52270FA1939BE9704DD660@MWHPR06MB3328.namprd06.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
Dear all--<br>
I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on an Elizabethan Play":<br>
<br>
and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Elisa<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:45:48 -0400<br>
From: coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANqcSJpf1eE+Vm1pC_VwKdbO=t=mailto:<a href="mailto:4vQt3sAWiyt%252BGepXKOCJjCw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">4vQt3sAWiyt%2BGepXKOCJjCw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear all--<br>
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
><br>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who<br>
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke<br>
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and<br>
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing<br>
> here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Elisa<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:51:39 -0400<br>
From: coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANqcSJrLpgpxKgnUivWJNosgSMiqLWDgzhFR2=<a href="mailto:m4aLuEz63jVg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">m4aLuEz63jVg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
But I think Google Books<br>
<<a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=CF9SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=owl+in+the+ivy+elizabethan+play&source=bl&ots=apbWGROF36&sig=ACfU3U2EfEcNJFk7UiOP-t0Hbuj6nV1wkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwififyX9bnqAhXxknIEHfIQAoEQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=ivy&f=false" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=CF9SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=owl+in+the+ivy+elizabethan+play&source=bl&ots=apbWGROF36&sig=ACfU3U2EfEcNJFk7UiOP-t0Hbuj6nV1wkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwififyX9bnqAhXxknIEHfIQAoEQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=ivy&f=false</a>><br>
has the answer: John Marston's Histriomastix or The Player Whipped.<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:45 PM coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<br>
> <a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dear all--<br>
>> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
>> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
>> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
>> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
>> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
>><br>
>> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight<br>
>> who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian<br>
>> Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy<br>
>> and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4<br>
>> 67)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is<br>
>> citing here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Thanks,<br>
>><br>
>> Elisa<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 22:40:29 -0400<br>
From: Rebecca Duncan <<a href="mailto:duncanr@meredith.edu" target="_blank">duncanr@meredith.edu</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAM_67cFxiYzheqLxSq4aOnBmjJaE-XM3kGqHD0vAy1prHdyZzQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAM_67cFxiYzheqLxSq4aOnBmjJaE-XM3kGqHD0vAy1prHdyZzQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
>From a colleague:<br>
<br>
So more research is necessary, but I think that there were a few plays<br>
about the Duke of Savoy that might contain the right references. They?re<br>
not Elizabethan though; they?re Carolinian. I?ll see if I can find a text<br>
of Davenant?s Love and Honor and Shirley?s The Grateful Servant. Pepys<br>
wrote about both, I think, and Woolf would have read Pepys?<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear all--<br>
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
><br>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who<br>
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke<br>
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and<br>
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing<br>
> here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Elisa<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Dr. Rebecca Duncan<br>
Professor, English<br>
*Meredith College*<br>
Raleigh, NC<br>
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End of Vwoolf Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6<br>
*************************************<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Ana Carolina Mesquita<br>
<br>
tel: + 55 11 99269.7778<br>
skype: anacarol.mesquita<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 20:56:25 +0100<br>
From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <<a href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" target="_blank">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>><br>
To: "Stuart N. Clarke" <<a href="mailto:stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com" target="_blank">stuart.n.clarke@btinternet.com</a>>,<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup<br>
Message-ID: <BCB18B42F30C4C2DA760D6157D7F0773@StuartHP><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Podem chama-me ?o Cachorrinho?<br>
<br>
From: Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf <br>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 5:18 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a> <br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup<br>
<br>
This is a very interesting question. I?m fairly (not 100%) sure I?ve got the answer right.<br>
<br>
It appears to have been the nickname of W. W. Asquith, ?brother of the future Prime Minister (known because of his sarcastic tongue as ?the Pup??but Frank came to like him)?. This I found using Google Books (bio. of Francis Younghusband), but I can?t see any more online. Anyway, Thoby was in Asquith?s (boarding) House at Clifton College.<br>
<br>
I haven?t quite grasped why a sarcastic tongue would result in someone being called a ?pup?. The closest I can spot in the OED is <br>
A young man, esp. one who is stupid, arrogant, or unpleasant.Stuart<br>
(Day 118)<br>
<br>
From: Carol Mesquita via Vwoolf <br>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 4:37 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a> <br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] A SKETCH OF THE PAST: the Pup<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
Hope you are all safe and well.<br>
<br>
I am translating "A Sketch of the Past" into Brazilian Portuguese and came across a term that seemed obscure to me. The passage in which it appears is about Thoby:<br>
<br>
He held his own, he put up with disagreeables; he was far more philosophic, because more in his element than Adrian was. And he exacted his rights. The Pup had to apologise when he put another boy over him as head of the house; he was not going to be passed over. (Harcourt, 1985, p. 126.) <br>
<br>
I could not find what, or who, "the Pup" is. If anybody could help, that would be great. I thank you in advance!<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Ana Carolina Mesquita<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 11:41 PM <<a href="mailto:vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf-request@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Woolf sighting (K L Levenback)<br>
2. really obscure Elizabethan reference (Elisa Sparks)<br>
3. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)<br>
4. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (coruscate818)<br>
5. Re: really obscure Elizabethan reference (Rebecca Duncan)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:30:20 -0400<br>
From: "K L Levenback" <<a href="mailto:kllevenback@att.net" target="_blank">kllevenback@att.net</a>><br>
To: "" <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] Woolf sighting<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:Mailbird-3203fb44-5107-4079-8c26-66ab49873510@att.net" target="_blank">Mailbird-3203fb44-5107-4079-8c26-66ab49873510@att.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
>From yet another sharp-eyed friend:<br>
<br>
I just saw this: "But the spirit of the characters seems most apparent to me in her 2012 picture book, Virginia Wolf?illustrated by Isabelle Arsenault?a storybook fantasia on the childhood relationship between Vanessa Stephen and her sister Virginia, who would one day be known as Virginia Woolf. It begins, not unlike Frog and Toad are Friends, with Virginia nestled in bed, refusing to get out. Vanessa narrates, ?One day my sister Virginia woke up feeling wolfish.?":<br>
<a href="https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html</a> [<a href="https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://slate.com/culture/2020/07/frog-and-toad-anniversary-arnold-lobel.html</a>]<br>
?<br>
Hope you are having a happy 4th!<br>
<br>
Seconding the above--<br>
Karen Levenback<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 00:34:22 +0000<br>
From: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:MWHPR06MB332860B52270FA1939BE9704DD660@MWHPR06MB3328.namprd06.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">MWHPR06MB332860B52270FA1939BE9704DD660@MWHPR06MB3328.namprd06.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
Dear all--<br>
I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on an Elizabethan Play":<br>
<br>
and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Elisa<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:45:48 -0400<br>
From: coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANqcSJpf1eE+Vm1pC_VwKdbO=t=mailto:<a href="mailto:4vQt3sAWiyt%252BGepXKOCJjCw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">4vQt3sAWiyt%2BGepXKOCJjCw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear all--<br>
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
><br>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who<br>
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke<br>
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and<br>
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing<br>
> here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Elisa<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 20:51:39 -0400<br>
From: coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CANqcSJrLpgpxKgnUivWJNosgSMiqLWDgzhFR2=<a href="mailto:m4aLuEz63jVg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">m4aLuEz63jVg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
But I think Google Books<br>
<<a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=CF9SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=owl+in+the+ivy+elizabethan+play&source=bl&ots=apbWGROF36&sig=ACfU3U2EfEcNJFk7UiOP-t0Hbuj6nV1wkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwififyX9bnqAhXxknIEHfIQAoEQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=ivy&f=false" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=CF9SAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA382&lpg=PA382&dq=owl+in+the+ivy+elizabethan+play&source=bl&ots=apbWGROF36&sig=ACfU3U2EfEcNJFk7UiOP-t0Hbuj6nV1wkQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwififyX9bnqAhXxknIEHfIQAoEQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=ivy&f=false</a>><br>
has the answer: John Marston's Histriomastix or The Player Whipped.<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:45 PM coruscate818 <<a href="mailto:coruscate818@gmail.com" target="_blank">coruscate818@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Some of it seems to fit John Webster's "The Duchess of Malfi."<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<br>
> <a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Dear all--<br>
>> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
>> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
>> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
>> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
>> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
>><br>
>> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight<br>
>> who imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian<br>
>> Duke who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy<br>
>> and the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4<br>
>> 67)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is<br>
>> citing here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Thanks,<br>
>><br>
>> Elisa<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 22:40:29 -0400<br>
From: Rebecca Duncan <<a href="mailto:duncanr@meredith.edu" target="_blank">duncanr@meredith.edu</a>><br>
To: Elisa Sparks <<a href="mailto:sparks@clemson.edu" target="_blank">sparks@clemson.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] really obscure Elizabethan reference<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAM_67cFxiYzheqLxSq4aOnBmjJaE-XM3kGqHD0vAy1prHdyZzQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAM_67cFxiYzheqLxSq4aOnBmjJaE-XM3kGqHD0vAy1prHdyZzQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
>From a colleague:<br>
<br>
So more research is necessary, but I think that there were a few plays<br>
about the Duke of Savoy that might contain the right references. They?re<br>
not Elizabethan though; they?re Carolinian. I?ll see if I can find a text<br>
of Davenant?s Love and Honor and Shirley?s The Grateful Servant. Pepys<br>
wrote about both, I think, and Woolf would have read Pepys?<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 8:34 PM Elisa Sparks via Vwoolf <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear all--<br>
> I am researching ivy in Virginia Woolf and have discovered a pattern of<br>
> references to owls in the ivy. I have not been able to find any literary<br>
> origins for this association which appears no les than six times in Woolf's<br>
> writing. Particularly curious is this allusion in her 1925 essay "Notes on<br>
> an Elizabethan Play":<br>
><br>
> and we scarcely recognise any likeness between the knight who<br>
> imported timber and died of pneumonia at Muswell Hill and the Armenian Duke<br>
> who fell like a Roman on his sword while the owl shrieked in the ivy and<br>
> the Duchess gave birth to a still-born babe ?mongst women howling (E4 67)<br>
><br>
><br>
> Does anyone have any idea what minor Elizabethan dramatist Woolf is citing<br>
> here? I am at an utter loss.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Elisa<br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Vwoolf mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Dr. Rebecca Duncan<br>
Professor, English<br>
*Meredith College*<br>
Raleigh, NC<br>
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<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Ana Carolina Mesquita<br>
<br>
tel: + 55 11 99269.7778<br>
skype: anacarol.mesquita<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font style="font-family:garamond,serif" size="2"><font style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:verdana,sans-serif" size="2"><b>Ana Carolina Mesquita</b></font><br></font><font style="font-family:garamond,serif" size="2"><font style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" size="2"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="line-height:1;padding:0px;vertical-align:top" align="left" valign="top"> <div style="margin:3px 0px 0px;line-height:1.1;word-break:break-word;font-size:14px;font-family:Pragmatica,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span></span></div> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> tel: + 55 11 99269.7778</font><br style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" size="2">skype: anacarol.mesquita</font></font><font style="font-family:garamond,serif" size="2"><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>