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<font size="+1"><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I think
rulings like this one drive countries further apart and put the
lie to the idea that we're "all connected" through the
internet. Having to pay to be published is very contrary to the
expectations and experiences of US scholars--they will no longer
publish in British and other European journals if they are
forced to pay. We do not receive funding to cover fees like
that. According to Maggie, British scholars will not want to
publish in American journals because ours are not in open
access. Consequently, Americans will publish in American
journals, and Europeans will publish in European journals, and
the academic communities will drift further apart. It's not a
simple matter to tell the US to switch to the open access model
because ours is so radically different and the switch would
involve coming up financial resources we do not have.<br>
<br>
June<br>
<br>
</font></font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/25/14, 10:23 AM, Sarah M. Hall
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:996296273.976419.1416932639581.JavaMail.yahoo@jws11136.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_29974">Thanks, Maggie, I
think this answers my question to Mark.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_29972"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_29970" dir="ltr">Sarah<br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_29968"><span></span></div>
<br>
<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30115"
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<hr size="1"> <font
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30117" face="Arial"
size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Maggie Humm <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:M.Humm@uel.ac.uk"><M.Humm@uel.ac.uk></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Mark Hussey <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mhussey@verizon.net"><mhussey@verizon.net></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com">"t.prudente@talk21.com"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com"><t.prudente@talk21.com></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">"Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"><Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Tuesday, 25 November 2014, 16:14<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Vwoolf] R: Open Access<br>
</font> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30119"
class="y_msg_container"><br>
<div id="yiv5455336385">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30121">The UK
issue, as everyone knows, is that for the next REF
(formally RAE) Research Excellence Framework the UK
Research Councils and HEFCE are insisting on
articles being submitted from open access journals.
See useful summary:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30123"
original_target="http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/softening-of-line-on-open-access-only-ref/2012340.article"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/softening-of-line-on-open-access-only-ref/2012340.article">http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/softening-of-line-on-open-access-only-ref/2012340.article</a><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
there is much opposition not least from the
prestigious British Academy:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30125"
original_target="http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/british-academy-fears-for-humanities-in-open-access-world/2012729.article"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/british-academy-fears-for-humanities-in-open-access-world/2012729.article">http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/british-academy-fears-for-humanities-in-open-access-world/2012729.article</a><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
But the REF rules all UK academics' writing and
career prospects as did the RAE (not least because
REF results are available on -line employers can
check at a glance a candidate's standing and
'grades'). See the last exercise's grades (still
known as the RAE) and reports:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1416912503576_30282"
original_target="http://www.rae.ac.uk/"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.rae.ac.uk/">http://www.rae.ac.uk/</a><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
My guess is that younger academics will be less
willing to publish in US journals which are not open
access (although the revised policy allows some non
open access publishing Schools/Departments are going
to be very wary and unfortunately the UK REF panels
and sub-panels encompass so many disciplinary areas
that members cannot possibly know of the status of
journals outside their immediate fields).<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The REF 2014 results will be known this December.
I'm included in my School's Media and Cultural
Studies submission but I'm so glad that I finally
retired from all this in November 2013 (and no
longer need to use words like 'stake-holder')!<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Hope this is helpful.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Maggie<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
PS UK journal editors also work for free and those
in the post-92 universities get no teaching/admin
relief.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
________________________________<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
From: Vwoolf
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces+m.humm=uel.ac.uk@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf-bounces+m.humm=uel.ac.uk@lists.osu.edu</a>] on
behalf of Mark Hussey [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mhussey@verizon.net">mhussey@verizon.net</a>]<br
clear="none">
Sent: 25 November 2014 15:07<br clear="none">
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com">t.prudente@talk21.com</a>; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
original_target="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"
target="_blank" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] R: Open Access<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thank you for all these responses. I know my “give
away for nothing” phrase was provocative!<br
clear="none">
Just to be clear, I am particularly interested in
how academics in the UK feel about their
government’s requirement as I believe it will affect
their willingness to publish in US-based journals.
The examples given are interesting, but do not fit
the case of a very small academic press; many
scholarly journal editors in the US, for example,
perform their work for nothing or for perhaps a
course release. This issue has, naturally, been of
great interest on the Council of Editors of Learned
Journals (CELJ) listserv too as people begin to try
to fathom what is going on in UK scholarly
publishing.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I look forward to more points of view!<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
From: Vwoolf [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu">mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>]
On Behalf Of <a moz-do-not-send="true"
original_target="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:t.prudente@talk21.com">t.prudente@talk21.com</a><br
clear="none">
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:47 AM<br
clear="none">
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
original_target="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"
saprocessedanchor="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"
target="_blank" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] R: Open Access<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Dear all,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
as an Italian researcher, I feel that some more
detailed explanation on the "peculiar" situation of
Academic publishing in Italy is here needed, so as
make - perhaps - Francesca's view more
understandable.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Academic publishing in Italy is mainly - if not
entirely - based on a "pay to publish" system.
Individual researchers sign a contract with a
publisher in which they accept to pay a certain
amount of money (depending on the publisher, the
book's length, the number of copies arranged for,
etc...) and they usually pay by using the research
money that the Ministry of Research provides them
with for their research projects. Thus, when
Francesca talks about public financing to academic
publishing she actually refers to this system, which
does not entail public money to be given directly to
publishers (they are private), but money that is
given to researchers and that they usually employ
for this kind of publishing. Now, a system of this
kind presents of course a set of problems that, in
my opinion, deeply affect research in Italy: in the
majority of cases, no proper peer-reviewing is
performed on manuscripts or articles (as long as you
pay, you will be published), books and journals have
not a proper circulation (the publisher is not very
committed to do any effort to selling them, as it
has not, in the end, invested any money on it, on
the contrary, it has already had its profits from
the researcher's payment), and public research money
that could and should be used differently
(organization of conferences, research travel
etc...) goes instead almost entirely in this system.
I don't know if this "pay to publish" system is also
equally pervasive in other countries. Personally, I
have chosen, from the very beginning of my career,
to publish exclusively abroad in order to "escape"
this system, to which I deeply object, and a few
colleagues of mine are doing the same. And,
publishing abroad, I was never required to pay money
and I went through genuine peer-reviewing processes.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Within the context that I have described, open
access has indubitably represented a positive
change, at least in Italy, as, as Francesca remarks,
open access journals are obliged to perform
peer-reviewing and - as long as I understand, not
being an expert in OA - publishing costs have
sensibly decreased. I suspect, then, that the impact
and consequences of OA are probably different for
each country, depending on their publishing system,
and even the macro-division between "public" and
"private" systems presents further ramifications
amplifying possible differences.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I hope this helps, and, especially, that I have not
misinterpreted what Francesca, as an expert in OA,
intended to highlight.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
best,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Teresa<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
________________________________<br clear="none">
From: Caroline Webb
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:caroline.webb@newcastle.edu.au">caroline.webb@newcastle.edu.au</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:caroline.webb@newcastle.edu.au"><mailto:caroline.webb@newcastle.edu.au></a>><br
clear="none">
To:
"<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"><mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu></a>"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"><mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu></a>><br
clear="none">
Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2014, 3:58<br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] R: Open Access<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I think what’s meant by “research outputs should not
be financed more than once by public money” is not
that the journals/presses are public but the
academic research is. European universities, like
nearly all in Australia and like many but very much
*not* all in the US, are public institutions funded
in whole or in part by the government (in Germany
it’s just become whole, in Australia it’s a rapidly
decreasing part), and most of the grants available
to individual researchers are also
government-funded. Hence the public is paying, in
the form of taxes, for the academics at those
publicly-funded institutions to perform research.
The theory then is that that research should be
openly available to the people who paid for it.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Caroline Webb<br clear="none">
The University of Newcastle, Australia<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
From: Vwoolf
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces+caroline.webb=newcastle.edu.au@lists.osu.edu">mailto:vwoolf-bounces+caroline.webb=newcastle.edu.au@lists.osu.edu</a>]
On Behalf Of June Cummins<br clear="none">
Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2014 9:48 AM<br
clear="none">
To:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"><mailto:vwoolf@lists.osu.edu></a><br
clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] R: Open Access<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
In the United States, academic publishing is not
financed by public money except in cases where the
press hosting the journal is in a public university
and even then, very little of the press's finances
are coming from "the public." Academic publishing is
paid for through subscriptions, which are owned
either by individuals or more often by universities.
Perhaps this basic difference in academic publishing
is the reason U.S. scholars don't understand
European methods of making scholarship available.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
June Cummins<br clear="none">
On 11/24/14, 4:39 PM, Francesca wrote:<br
clear="none">
Dear professor Hussey,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I dare answer your question even though I do not
belong to the academic world; I just have a degree
(I wrote a dissertation about The Voyage Out) and a
PhD (again about travel literature) but I am a
librarian who works in Italy, at the Library System
of the University of Trento.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
One of my professional tasks is related to Open
Access. I will not bother you all advocating for OA
(there are a lot of reliable websites you can read
in order to get the information you may be
interested in) but I will just add some words about
your remark:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
>> journals that give their content away for
nothing<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
OA journals are peer-reviewed journals which do not
give away *their* content for nothing (I am
highlighting “their” because the content’s rights
should not be considered as “the publisher’s”, but
should be retained by the author…).<br clear="none">
These journals are just based on a different
economic model.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Research outputs (articles) should not be financed
more than once by public money. There is no reason
whatsoever for publicly financing a research project
at the begining, then selling the output to a
commercial publisher, which must be re-paid again by
libraries (subscriptions) to enable researchers and
students access the article.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
In OA, Universities and researchers pay just once
(with research grants) for a paper to be published.
After that, nothing more is due to the publisher;
the paper goes through the journal's normal peer
review process and the article is then freely and
openly available because it has already been paid.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
It is so sad that after eleven years from the Berlin
Declaration there should be still so many
misunderstandings and biases about Open Access. I do
not ask you to adhere to OA movement of course, but
I would consider myself professionally satisfied if
an unbiased knowledge of OA principles were slowly
achieved.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Sincecerly yours (and apologizing for my English),<br
clear="none">
Francesca Valentini<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
________________________________<br clear="none">
Da: Vwoolf
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces+frvln=hotmail.com@lists.osu.edu">mailto:vwoolf-bounces+frvln=hotmail.com@lists.osu.edu</a>]
Per conto di Mark Hussey<br clear="none">
Inviato: lunedì 24 novembre 2014 22.53<br
clear="none">
A:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu">VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu"><mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu></a><br
clear="none">
Oggetto: [Vwoolf] Open Access<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Do those of you likely to publish in US-based
journals (such as, for example, Woolf Studies
Annual!) have any concerns about the UK government’s
forthcoming requirement that to be counted you may
only publish in journals that give their content
away for nothing?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Vwoolf mailing list<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu"><mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu></a><br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">
--<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
________________________________________<br
clear="none">
June Cummins, Associate Professor<br clear="none">
Director, Graduate Program<br clear="none">
Department of English and Comparative Literature<br
clear="none">
San Diego State University<br clear="none">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu">jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu"><mailto:jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu></a><br
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SDSU Children’s Literature Program<br clear="none">
childlit.sdsu.edu<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://childlit.sdsu.edu/"><http://childlit.sdsu.edu/></a><br
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<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br
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Vwoolf mailing list<br clear="none">
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<title></title>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="Section1">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">________________________________________<br>
June Cummins, Associate Professor<br>
Director, Graduate Program<br>
Department of English and Comparative Literature<br>
San Diego State University<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu">jcummins@mail.sdsu.edu</a><o:p></o:p><br>
SDSU
Children’s Literature Program<o:p></o:p><br>
<a href="http://childlit.sdsu.edu"><span
class="GramE">childlit.sdsu.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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