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<div dir="ltr" abp="428"> <br abp="429">Dear all, dear Julie,</div><div dir="ltr" abp="430"> </div><div dir="ltr" abp="431">When I first saw the image my feeling was the tube and the discs were some kind of game. This seems to be a general feeling reading the comments.</div><p class="ecxMsoNormal" dir="ltr" abp="432"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;' abp="433"></span> </p><div dir="ltr" abp="434">Allow me to pass on some knowledge from a Dutch painting expert - altho he really would like to see a larger image -.</div><div dir="ltr" abp="435"> </div><div dir="ltr" abp="436"> It seems to him</div><div dir="ltr" abp="437"> </div><div dir="ltr" abp="438"> " the 'telescope' is more likely to be a tube or case filled with circular discs ment for some kind of game, two of which are already shaken out, A telescope with its protective covers seems unlikely to me. The very first telescopes were only in existance for a year when the painting was done.<br abp="439">Oddly enough there is a small hole in the first disc of the case and I cant see any holes in the discs on the table. You might think of a telescope but the young man is holding the tube in such a way that it seems like he wants to roll something out of it, it is not the way to hold a telescope. May be you can find a game from the period, a game with or without the holes in the discs. I think they started out without a hole and during restauration ( there almost arent any 17th century paintings without it) something was added or painted away. E.g. the restaurer might have thought it was a telescope and made a suggestion of a lens on the disc or the holes in the discs on the table are painted away.</div><div dir="ltr" abp="440">It happens often that art historians trying to interpret a painting are misled by old restaurations and/or later over painting. I would find it interesting to research whether the first black circle in front of the white circle of the tube is a later addition, in that case one can rule it being a telescope".</div><div dir="ltr" abp="441"> </div><div dir="ltr" abp="442">end of quote.</div><div dir="ltr" abp="443"> </div><div dir="ltr" abp="444">I hope this all helps Julie. Good luck!</div><div dir="ltr" abp="445">AnneMarie</div><div dir="ltr" abp="446"> <br abp="447"> <br abp="448"><br abp="449"></div><div dir="ltr" abp="450">> From: mhussey@verizon.net<br abp="451">> To: caroline.webb@newcastle.edu.au; danelljones@bresnan.net; jeannette_smyth@earthlink.net; VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu<br abp="452">> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:26:57 -0400<br abp="453">> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] What do you think these are?<br abp="454">> <br abp="455">> Is there really no art historical writing about Cornelius Nuie? Seems like<br abp="456">> an opening for someone!<br abp="457">> <br abp="458">> -----Original Message-----<br abp="459">> From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Caroline<br abp="460">> Webb<br abp="461">> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:50 PM<br abp="462">> To: Danell Jones; 'Jeannette Smyth'; VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu<br abp="463">> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] What do you think these are?<br abp="464">> <br abp="465">> Hi all,<br abp="466">> <br abp="467">> I'm not actually convinced that the larger object is a telescope/spyglass.<br abp="468">> Is this an accepted identification? Telescopes were very new indeed<br abp="469">> (Wikipedia says 1608, but Gribbin's History of Science says it was developed<br abp="470">> by Leonard Digges in the 1550s but not publicised for a long time). That's<br abp="471">> not in itself necessarily a problem--nobles were patrons and made a point of<br abp="472">> getting new things--but this one looks seriously small, even if what we're<br abp="473">> seeing is the eye-piece; in fact there seems to be indentation just past<br abp="474">> there, which wouldn't make sense for a telescope. It looks to me to be a<br abp="475">> recorder, a very popular instrument at the time--we're seeing the bottom end<br abp="476">> of it. The boy is being shown as a musician, a respectable amateur activity<br abp="477">> for a noble; Henry VIII (yes, that was earlier) owned 76 recorders,<br abp="478">> apparently, and was a composer himself.<br abp="479">> <br abp="480">> In any case I don't think the pale objects are felt pads. In this sort of<br abp="481">> painting the details are important/symbolic, and I don't see these<br abp="482">> particular accessories (to telescope or recorder) being seen as worthy of<br abp="483">> inclusion. Game counters seem much more likely.<br abp="484">> <br abp="485">> Caroline<br abp="486">> -----Original Message-----<br abp="487">> From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Danell Jones<br abp="488">> Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2014 3:37 AM<br abp="489">> To: 'Jeannette Smyth'; VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu<br abp="490">> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] What do you think these are?<br abp="491">> <br abp="492">> How about pieces from a board game? One for each boy--suggesting they are<br abp="493">> players in some large game or intrigue? <br abp="494">> <br abp="495">> If you know where it is/who owns it, I am sure you could write to the<br abp="496">> curator and ask what they are.<br abp="497">> <br abp="498">> When you find out, let us know!<br abp="499">> <br abp="500">> Danell<br abp="501">> <br abp="502">> -----Original Message-----<br abp="503">> From: Vwoolf [mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.osu.edu] On Behalf Of Jeannette<br abp="504">> Smyth<br abp="505">> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:23 AM<br abp="506">> To: VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu<br abp="507">> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] What do you think these are?<br abp="508">> <br abp="509">> They pixelate when zoomed on. I think they look like lens caps, not separate<br abp="510">> lenses, as I first thought. I do think they are accessories for the<br abp="511">> telescope and not felt pads. Would not a nobelman's telescope in 1610 have<br abp="512">> its own fitted case, and not be left lying out on the cocktail table?<br abp="513">> <br abp="514">> I suspect, that in 1610, when Galileo himself was discovering Jupiter's<br abp="515">> moons through a telescope, young Edward's telescope symbolizes everything<br abp="516">> Renaissance/heliocentric/humanist that could be symbolized. Lens caps off!<br abp="517">> Yet, it revolves!!! (Galileo was not declared a heretic until 1616, I think.<br abp="518">> But there was Copernicus to deal with.)<br abp="519">> <br abp="520">> Jeannette Smyth<br abp="521">> <br abp="522">> On Sep 29, 2014, at 8:20 AM, Vandivere, Julie wrote:<br abp="523">> <br abp="524">> > <br abp="525">> > <br abp="526">> > The first edition of Orlando had this as one of its illustrations. <br abp="527">> > What<br abp="528">> do you think the little white circles are on the table? <br abp="529">> > <br abp="530">> > I know the illustration was done at Knole by an unknown artist and is <br abp="531">> > of<br abp="532">> Edward Sackville West "The Two Sons of Edward, 4th Earl of Dorset by<br abp="533">> Cornelius Nule in about 1610. In Orlando, the painting appears in black and<br abp="534">> white, but here I am including the colored one because I would love<br abp="535">> speculation on what the two white dots on the table are. They look like felt<br abp="536">> pads. I know this might seem a bit silly, but I'm using the painting to<br abp="537">> make an argument.<br abp="538">> > <br abp="539">> > They look like felt pads and might be to guard the glass on the <br abp="540">> > telescope<br abp="541">> that is lying on the table. But I'd hate to make that argument without some<br abp="542">> input. Necco wafers?<br abp="543">> > <br abp="544">> > <br abp="545">> > <br abp="546">> > <ORL_13585127053.jpeg><br abp="547">> > _______________________________________________<br abp="548">> > Vwoolf mailing list<br abp="549">> > Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br abp="550">> > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf<br abp="551">> <br abp="552">> _______________________________________________<br abp="553">> Vwoolf mailing list<br abp="554">> Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br abp="555">> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf<br abp="556">> <br abp="557">> _______________________________________________<br abp="558">> Vwoolf mailing list<br abp="559">> Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br abp="560">> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf<br abp="561">> _______________________________________________<br abp="562">> Vwoolf mailing list<br abp="563">> Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br abp="564">> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf<br abp="565">> <br abp="566">> _______________________________________________<br abp="567">> Vwoolf mailing list<br abp="568">> Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu<br abp="569">> https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf<br abp="570"></div>
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