<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Ouch! Never edit a scientist unless you are very sure of your ground, would be my advice to that unwise editor. I used to write and edit medical research material and was always very wary of changing unfamiliar phrases -- as you found to your cost, even tiny edits can completely alter the meaning, or even reverse it. The fact that 're-uptake' appeared in the quotation though should have been a big clue to them!<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Mary Ellen Foley <mefoleyuk@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Jeremy Hawthorn <jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" <VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 29 October 2013, 17:49<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vwoolf] Leonard Woolf as copy editor<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv7467810240"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>I'm an editor, and I've been edited. (Cue Joni Mitchell's "Both Sides Now".)<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>My worst experience of being edited was at the Stanford Daily, the daily newspaper of Stanford University and the surrounding community. To cut a long story short, I interviewed a professor who was doing the work on
serotonin re-uptake inhibitors that has since given us the now-familiar SSRI drugs. (This was Very Long Ago.) But the editor decided there was no such word as "re-uptake" and changed it to "uptake" everywhere, including in quotations, so that the science in the piece was reduced to meaningless hash (since re-uptake is what happens to leftover neurotransmitters after uptake, uptake and re-uptake being separate processes performed by different cells--which I had explained in the article I wrote). I was so embarrassed I couldn't even apologize to the professor. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></div>I would be grateful if list members could tell me about instances of bad editing they've been subjected to, for use in an article I'm putting together.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>M E Foley<br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv7467810240gmail_extra">
<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv7467810240yqt9403679139" id="yiv7467810240yqtfd73231"><div class="yiv7467810240gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Jeremy Hawthorn <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no" target="_blank" href="mailto:jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no">jeremy.hawthorn@ntnu.no</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv7467810240gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;">Much truth in this. But there is another side of the coin. Who would have thought that the Internet would become a place where young people correct grammatical mistakes made by
their peers? And yet this has happened. They may get called Grammar Nazis for doing it, but that doesn't stop them. So beware if you post online and confuse "your" with "you're" - someone will point out your error. My guess is that kids pay more attention
to such corrections made online than they do when teacher makes them on an essay that no-one else sees (no criticism of teachers, incidentally). History, as Mr Eliot pointed out, has many cunning passages.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jeremy H<br clear="none">
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<div style="direction:ltr;"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Melanie White [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:melanie.white@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:melanie.white@comcast.net">melanie.white@comcast.net</a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 29 October 2013 18:29<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Jeremy Hawthorn; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu">VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Vwoolf] Leonard Woolf as copy editor<br clear="none">
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<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">I worked for many years as a copy editor. As spell-checkers became more common, copy editors became more expendable. In time, copy editor functions were folded into other job
descriptions, based on the assumption that anyone semi-literate could do it. Many employers believed just about anybody could copy edit, so why pay a specialist? We were called on to justify ourselves more and more, and eventually our jobs were eliminated.</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">In the last ten years or so, things like texting and on-line commenting have eroded public expectations. People have grown accustomed to sloppiness and forgive it because they
make so many errors themselves when IMing their coworkers or texting with their kids.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">I also blame reality TV for a lot of this mixing-up-of-similar-words. Not everyone can reach for the right word and lay hands on it in the moment. Most of us need a sec. But
when you’re on a reality TV show and the producer has the camera on you, you don’t want to look hesistant or inarticulate. So you grab at validate but instead end up with solidify. Who cares? You get the idea.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">Newspapers are dying or dead, and most magazines and journals exist on paper as a sidelight to their “online presence.” And people seem way more forgiving online, so both editions
are infected with rampant carelessness in the rush for 24/7 coverage of everything from Middle East protests to warning signs for botox abuse.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">I’m not a snob, I swear. I love the way English continues to grow and change over time. I’m willing and happy to change rules or introduce new usages. I am not opposed to change.
But there’s a difference between change and sloppiness. </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">I’m a lover of words. I consider myself one of a dying breed, the last of a dying species. I am in my mid-50s. I learned to set type on a Varityper, but typesetting was replaced
by word processing, which has been replaced by the Internet. I loved the precision of setting type. I love the precision of words. I consider it an art: sensing when to abide by a rule or bend it for the sake of an effect. But some things are just plain wrong
when they’re wrong. I wonder when – or whether – we’ll reach bottom in our tolerance for sloppiness. I figure when people start losing money or dying because of it.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="">N.B. I apologize now for any typos or grammatical mistakes in this post.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> vwoolf-bounces+melanie.white=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>
[mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vwoolf-bounces%2Bmelanie.white" target="_blank" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces%2Bmelanie.white">vwoolf-bounces+melanie.white</a>=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">comcast.net@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>] <b>
On Behalf Of </b>Jeremy Hawthorn<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:00 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu">VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vwoolf] Leonard Woolf as copy editor</span></div>
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</div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal">Fascinating information. Writers do seem to vary enormously when it comes to such things, with some checking every comma and semi-colon at every stage of the publishing process, and others - well, leaving it to spouses and copy editors.
As Mark implies, such matters do impact on theories of textual editing. It does seem to me that if a writer leaves the fine-tuning of - say - punctuation to a copy editor, then this has to impact on matters of scholarly editing. Getting back to the "final
authorial version" may not be as appropriate in such cases as it is where the writer wanted control over ever tiny detail right through to publication. On the other hand, as anyone who has had their writing copy-edited knows, leaving the final check of your
punctuation to someone else must on occasions result in changes of meaning.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jeremy H<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 25.10.2013 14:20, Mark Hussey wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal">No, VW was quite sloppy and LW copy edited her texts. In <i>
The Death of the Moth and Other Essays</i> (1942), Leonard wrote of his having “punctuated and corrected obvious verbal mistakes. I have not hesitated to do this, since I always revised the MSS. of her books and articles in this way before they were published.”</div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal">Of course, as recent textual editing theory has taught us, editing is always interpretation!</div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a> [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu">mailto:vwoolf-bounces@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeremy Hawthorn<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 25, 2013 7:57 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> 'list', 'woolf' [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu">VWOOLF@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Vwoolf] Leonard Woolf as copy editor</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv7467810240MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Is it John Lehmann who has written about how scrupulous a copy editor Leonard W was? I have a memory of some such account. But did Virginia do copy editing for the Hogarth
Press? I should know this but don't.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jeremy H</span></div>
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<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>Professor Jeremy Hawthorn</pre>
<pre>Emeritus Professor</pre>
<pre>Department of Modern Foreign Languages</pre>
<pre>NTNU</pre>
<pre>7491 Trondheim</pre>
<pre>Norway</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>(Int <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">+ 47)73596787</a> (work)</pre>
<pre>(Int <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">+ 47)72887602</a> (home)</pre>
<pre>(Int <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">+ 47)90181427</a> (cellphone)</pre>
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