<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
p.ZZZHTMLPreformatted, li.ZZZHTMLPreformatted, div.ZZZHTMLPreformatted
{mso-style-name:"ZZZHTML Preformatted";
mso-style-link:"ZZZHTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.ZZZHTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"ZZZHTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"ZZZHTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>This is exactly the type of thing I’m talking about. Woolf was specific in her suicide letter as to why she took her life, and when her contemporaries began to hypothesize that she committed suicide because she feared Nazi invasion etc, Leonard quoted the letter publicly in order to stop that nonsense—which it seems to me is an unfortunate thing to have to do when your partner has just died. Mental illness is the main reason most people commit suicide, and it’s why Woolf committed suicide. She specifically said so and did not mention other reasons. The “carefully considered choice” is just another form of the romantic madwoman (or genius) throwing herself into the abyss—an attempt to recuperate as “altruistic” something that is the result of mental illness. That is a dangerous direction for Woolf scholars to go, in my opinion, because we seem then to throw the weight of our authority as Woolf scholars (and teachers/professors) behind a recuperative attitude towards suicide that does not encourage our students, readers, or audience members who might be fascinated with her suicide because they themselves contemplate suicide to get the <i>medical</i> help they need. I think we would have been better off to have another thirty or so years of writing from Woolf; her suicide ranks as one of those horrible things that happens in life that it’s too bad Leonard or someone didn’t see coming and manage to stop. I can’t recuperate it. I wouldn’t want to try. And I prefer the facts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Brenda Helt, PhD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu [mailto:vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jeannette smyth<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Woolf list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines & Woolf's suicide<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thank you for this excellent Orr information; I know Sir Leslie's financial anxiety was formative in Woolf's life, as well as Virginia's and Leonard's natural asceticism and frugality. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Another factor in her suicide, as I understand it, was the imminence of a Nazi invasion. I think this is mentioned, rather brutally, by Vanessa, in one of her letters to Virginia -- the prospect of being an "invalid" or raving lunatic at such a time, with both Leonard and herself on Hitler's to-kill list. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Finally, as I understand it, Adrian Stephen, a physician, had provided them all with a suicide pill in the event of a successful Nazi invasion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>These factors, along with the Bloomsberries' longstanding atheism and Leonard's carefully cultivated stoicism (via Montaigne/Seneca), would have made Virginia Woolf's suicide the altruistic, logical, long-contemplated, communitarian and sane decision -- the absolute opposite of a romantic madwoman's hurling herself into the abyss -- that it seems to have been.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jeannette Smyth<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message----- <br>From: "Neverow, Vara S." <br>Sent: Jun 14, 2012 8:36 AM <br>To: "<a href="mailto:helt0010@umn.edu">helt0010@umn.edu</a>" , Woolf list <br>Cc: Wayne Chapman <br>Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines & Woolf's suicide <br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>With regard to Woolf's suicide, I would recommend that Woolfians also consult the monograph <i>Virginia Woolf's Illnesses</i> by Douglass W. Orr <<a href="http://www.clemson.edu/cedp/cudp/pubs/orr/main.htm%3e" target="_blank">http://www.clemson.edu/cedp/cudp/pubs/orr/main.htm></a>. Orr argues <b>very</b> convincingly that Woolf's suicide was linked to financial anxieties. If she were to have needed nursing care, the costs would have been devastating. Chapter 14 of the volume is exceptionally informative on this topic and can be read in a searchable PDF format (many thanks to Wayne Chapman, for not only publishing the manuscript but also making it so readily accessible!).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Vara Neverow<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Brenda Helt <<a href="mailto:helt0010@umn.edu" target="_blank">helt0010@umn.edu</a>><br><b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:helt0010@umn.edu" target="_blank">helt0010@umn.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:helt0010@umn.edu" target="_blank">helt0010@umn.edu</a>><br><b>To: </b>VWOOLF listserv <<a href="mailto:vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>[Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines & Woolf's suicide<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Um, then don’t? I’m disturbed by tendencies among scholars and others to attempt to recuperate Woolf’s suicide in ways that might make it seem a model for those who see her as an icon. She left a suicide note—in fact, she left two. Leonard is also on record as to the reasons for the suicide. Surely it’s sufficient to stick to the primary source evidence of what Woolf actually said before taking her life, together with the long history of her fight with mental illness as recorded in her diaries and letters as well as in Leonard’s autobiography, Vanessa’s letters, etc. I think we tread on dangerous ground when we give voice in the classroom or on the stage or in print to a redemptive view of Woolf’s suicide that the evidence does not support. She feared she was again going mad and would not recover this time. She calls what she suffers from a “disease,” which it is. This is what she said. Why not tell students about that fear and have a discussion about depression, bipolar disorder, and mental illness more generally? About the likely outcomes of not getting such diseases treated properly—“proper” treatment was not available for Woolf at this time. Of course, do your research first. And Hermione Lee’s biography of Woolf is quite solidly grounded in the facts on the issue of her suicide. I’d read her pages dedicated to the suicide before talking about it with students.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hope that’s helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Brenda Helt<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a> [<a href="mailto:vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">mailto:vwoolf-bounces+helt0010=umn.edu@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Melody Wilson<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:14 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:atleswoolf@aol.com" target="_blank">atleswoolf@aol.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Interesting--I'm very troubled about putting words in her mouth as well.<br><br>Be Wise<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'><br>On Jun 14, 2012, at 6:12 AM, <a href="mailto:atleswoolf@aol.com" target="_blank">atleswoolf@aol.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>As far as I know, these lines are the screenwriter David Hare's and not Michael Cunningham's. They don't appear in the novel -- only in the film. I read somewhere a while back that Hare said he was nervous about putting such words into Woolf's mouth, or something to that effect.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Best, </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Drew Shannon</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>College of Mount St. Joseph<br><br><br></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Melody Wilson <<a href="mailto:melodywilson@tds.net" target="_blank">melodywilson@tds.net</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.osu.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>Sent: Thu, Jun 14, 2012 8:51 am<br>Subject: [Vwoolf] Apocryphal lines</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_0_25516dbe-fa86-454e-a454-ea7676e2c062"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Dear Woolfians:</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>I am writing a eulogy, and after showing The Hours in my class (we had read </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Dalloway), I was struck by the final lines I paraphrase as to look life in the </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>face and to love it...then to put it away (I'm stuck in this screen and can't </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>verify). I have done a preliminary search and think these are cunningham's </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>lines (he attributes them to one of the suicide notes). Can anyone verify that </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>these lines are not Woolf's? I will probably open w them anyway as the are </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>appropriate but I would like to know. Thanks for your help.</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'> </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Be Wise</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'> </span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Vwoolf mailing list</span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">Vwoolf@lists.service.ohio-state.edu</a></span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf" target="_blank">https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwoolf</a></span></tt><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></pre></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>