[Vwoolf] Daisy

Sat May 7 16:45:57 EDT 2022

Then again, there’s Daisy Fellowes, aka Marguerite Séverine Philippine Decazes de Glücksberg …

From: Vwoolf <vwoolf-bounces+mhussey=verizon.net at lists.osu.edu> On Behalf Of Jeremy Hawthorn via Vwoolf
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 11:21 AM
To: Stuart N. Clarke <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>; vwoolf at lists.osu.edu
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Daisy

There is probably an obvious natural symbolism at work here. Daisies grow wild and are common. In the British comedy series “Keeping up Appearances” the snobbish Mrs Bucket (pronounced bouquet) is named Hyacinth, while her disreputable and 

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There is probably an obvious natural symbolism at work here. Daisies grow wild and are common. In the British comedy series “Keeping up Appearances” the snobbish Mrs Bucket (pronounced bouquet) is named Hyacinth, while her disreputable and slovenly sister is named Daisy. Then there are Daisy Miller, and Daisy in The Great Gatsby.

As for the belief that non-European beauty fades fast, here are a few lines from Conrad’s second novel, An Outcast of the Islands, which is set before the time of Almayer’s Folly (and to complete this backwards movement, the third novel in the series, The Resue, is set prior to both of the other novels in the trilogy). At the end of An Outcast of the Islands, a “traveller” asks Almayer about the beautiful Aïssa, who has figured prominently in the novel.

‘You have seen her. She brought in the dinner with Ali.”

               “What! That doubled-up crone?”

               “Ah!” said Almayer. “They age quickly here. And long foggy nights spent in the bush will soon break the strongest backs – as you will find out yourself soon.”

               “Dis . . . disgusting,” growled the traveller.’

Going off at a tangent, does anyone else share my perception that the less attractive the man , the more likely it is that he will comment on the beauty or otherwise of women?

Jeremy H

Fra: Vwoolf <vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu <mailto:vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu> > På vegne av Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf
Sendt: lørdag 7. mai 2022 17:01
Til: vwoolf at lists.osu.edu <mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu> 
Emne: Re: [Vwoolf] Daisy

It’s a dodgy business pontificating about names: one tends to impose one’s own prejudices and one’s own times on them. E.g. Emily – quaintly Victorian to me. Pams are all of a certain age; Susans not much better. Daisy was a nickname for Margaret, 

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It’s a dodgy business pontificating about names: one tends to impose one’s own prejudices and one’s own times on them.  E.g. Emily – quaintly Victorian to me.  Pams are all of a certain age; Susans not much better.  Daisy was a nickname for Margaret, then had a life of its own when flower names became popular at the end of the 19th C.  Daisy was born about the time of Daisy’s greatest popularity.  I wonder if that popularity was influenced by the music-hall song (that everyone still knows, even small children).  If so, that suggests to me that those influenced are not likely to have been the well-to-do.  (I always think of it as a “common” name – I don’t think I’ve ever met a Daisy.)  Duncan Grant’s aunt was Daisy McNeil (d. 1947).

It has to be remembered that the Raj was a very middle class closed society, consisting largely of young and middle-aged people.  There was no aristocracy (except the Viceroy), no working classes (no jobs for them, except ordinary soldiers in the Indian Army), no elderly (they’ve retired Home), no children (they’ve been sent off to boarding school, preferably at Home).

As for half-caste women, they were often observed to be very beautiful (rather than “pretty”).  The trouble was, it was remarked, they didn’t last.

“The British who chose to stay on [in India] were mainly from the lower levels of society, often retired soldiers, who got jobs on the railways.  They married girls who called themselves European but who were widely suspected of being Eurasian. ... They were a sad group, not wanting to be Indian yet not accepted fully as part of the ruling race.  Respectable British society laughed at them ... They were not asked to join the Clubs or invited to the best parties. ... The [Eurasian] girls, who were often very beautiful, tried to obliterate any hint of Indian blood with powder and paint preparations which promised ‘Four shades whiter in four weeks!’  Their dream was to marry a British husband and go Home [where they had never been].” (“Women of the Raj” by Margaret MacMillan (2nd edn, 2018), pp. 58-9).

Stuart

“Half-caste woman, living a life apart,

“Where did your story begin?”

(Noel Coward, 1931)

From: Jeremy Hawthorn via Vwoolf 

Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 2:20 PM

To: VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu <mailto:VWOOLF at lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>  

Subject: [Vwoolf] Daisy

For some reason the popularity of the name Daisy in the UK plunged dramatically (why?) just about when Woolf was writing Mrs Dalloway. See https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ukbabynames.com/girls/daisy__;!!KGKeukY!xTVBbwpoe8tH0ZVIrQ4jUk1VUwXh_Cq7G2grrDyAbsm9vZfLq3nTXQm_1PD4FMQpbqElQYF8N_pGg7PSD0Xawg$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ukbabynames.com/girls/daisy__;!!KGKeukY!yrXONB7oJZX-AIGKRMDEvABmlLiPdqqqTQpz2FXm6uFw_8QVNrU0zZHwtLHqQ3fOUgoAykloI3z47GRM3mOs_2E18aUeVECsoQ$>  This of course may not apply to India, and in ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ 

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For some reason the popularity of the name Daisy in the UK plunged dramatically (why?) just about when Woolf was writing Mrs Dalloway. See

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ukbabynames.com/girls/daisy__;!!KGKeukY!xTVBbwpoe8tH0ZVIrQ4jUk1VUwXh_Cq7G2grrDyAbsm9vZfLq3nTXQm_1PD4FMQpbqElQYF8N_pGg7PSD0Xawg$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ukbabynames.com/girls/daisy__;!!KGKeukY!1S2yEmBWFgTFAjrMnEvH_JfL9aUkYyh3R_OlksbH7IGauwlvYAiX0dg-FuQ1Q4Q6UH1Nfj5MmKw1-1IiiSBOoq7vwSH3U_bQV5BAy9c$> 

This of course may not apply to India, and in Mrs Dalloway Daisy would presumably have been baptised when the name was popular.

I wonder if, in terms of class, “Daisy” suggests the lower end of the social scale.

Peter Walsh is 53 and Daisy is 24, married, and with 2 children. All this would raise an eyebrow even today . . . It certainly is striking that every time Peter Walsh thinks of her, the word “dark” is used. “Out came with his pocket-knife a snapshot of Daisy on the verandah; Daisy all in white, with a fox-terrier on her knee; very charming, very dark; the best he had ever seen of her.” “And the dark, adorably pretty girl on the verandah exclaimed (he could hear her).” “Vainly the dark, adorably pretty girl ran to the end of the terrace; vainly waved her hand; vainly cried she didn't care a straw what people said.” “(and the dark, adorably pretty face was on top of the envelopes)”. 

As for attitudes towards those of mixed ethnic backgrounds, Joseph Conrad’s first novel Almayer’s Folly, set in Bornean Sambir and published in 1895, includes a meeting between Dutch officers, Almayer, and his “half-caste” daughter Nina. One young officer is taken aback by Nina’s beauty.

‘The young sub began to recover from the astonishment and confusion caused by Nina's unexpected appearance and great beauty. "She was very beautiful and imposing," he reflected, "but after all a half-caste girl." This thought caused him to pluck up heart and look at Nina sideways. Nina, with composed face, was answering in a low, even voice the elder officer's polite questions as to the country and her mode of life.’

Jeremy Hawthorn

Professor Emeritus

NTNU

7491 Trondheim

Norway

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