[Vwoolf] Vwoolf Digest, Vol 120, Issue 6
AMY SMITH
acsmith3 at lamar.edu
Tue May 3 20:29:12 EDT 2022
Hi all,
Though I have hesitated all day to mention this (*blush*), I devoted a chapter of my recently released book, Virginia Woolf's Mythic Method, to Peter Walsh's colonial desire, primitivism, and miscegenation. I think that Woolf's depiction of Peter in Mrs. Dalloway is very relevant to questions of race, and especially in India. I am embarrassed to admit that I had never read Daisy as anything other than white before this conversation, and I'm happy to have my eyes opened to more complexity in the novel. Many thanks to all who have weighed in.
(And, while I'm shamelessly plugging things: Early registration for this year's (online) Woolf conference ends May 9th. Register now and save money! It's a truly fabulous program, if I do say so myself.)
Amy C. Smith (she/her)
Associate Professor, English & Modern Languages
Shaver Distinguished Faculty Fellow in Teaching
Lamar University, Member The Texas State University System
Author, Virginia Woolf's Mythic Method
Co-editor, Lamar Journal of the Humanities
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Flipping the script (Harish Trivedi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 00:58:03 +0530
From: Harish Trivedi <harish.trivedi at gmail.com<mailto:harish.trivedi at gmail.com>>
To: "Marielle O'Neill (1806529) PHD" <M.ONeill at leedstrinity.ac.uk<mailto:M.ONeill at leedstrinity.ac.uk>>
Cc: "vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>" <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>>, Gretchen Gerzina
<ozma at sover.net<mailto:ozma at sover.net>>
Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script
Message-ID:
<CACkxAQBXeZR7YQTKqod2cyLqZkdPV_p3uextChfNAnnAR0JJLg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CACkxAQBXeZR7YQTKqod2cyLqZkdPV_p3uextChfNAnnAR0JJLg at mail.gmail.com>>
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The semantic transition from 'Anglo-Indian' meaning (i) a Britisher resident in India to (ii) a person of mixed blood, often called a 'Eurasian', seems to have taken place well before Mrs D was published.
In 1918, the British government in India had reserved a seat for the 'Anglo-Indian' community in the legislative council, a reservation that the Government of independent India continued for many years after 1947, and in 1926, the groundswell of identity had emerged strongly enough for an All-India Anglo-Indian Association to be formed.
Going further back, we may cite an undoubted authority on India and race, an author by the name of Rudyard Kipling (whom too I 'follow' as devotedly as I follow VW). Writing in an English-language newspaper in India a report on a political assembly of Indians and some sympathetic Englishmen held in Allahabad in 1888, he identified one of the speakers, an ex-army man, as "the brown Captain." This Eurasian took deep offence at the description, for though he acknowledged that he was Eurasian, he presumably did not think he looked anything but white. (One is reminded of Homi Bhabha's phrase 'not quite not white'.)
So the Captain promptly rode up to the office of the newspaper, and administered a horse-whipping to the author -- except that he assumed that the anonymous author must have been the editor and so got hold of the wrong man. Kipling also has a couple of short stories in which Eurasians are not very kindly portrayed.
But I must go back to the novel and look for dear Daisy (page number?) instead of waffling.
Best wishes.
Harish
Harish Trivedi
On Wed, 4 May 2022 at 00:24, Marielle O'Neill (1806529) PHD via Vwoolf < vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
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> Hi Gretchen,
>
> Thanks for your points.
>
> However, I disagree with your comment, ' the term "Anglo-Indian" was
> used only for white English people living in India'- this is not the
> case in my family's experience around the time Woolf was writing 'Mrs
> Dalloway'. My grandmother born in the 1920s, her siblings and her
> father were not white (her mother was white Portuguese) but had Indian
> colouring and self-identified and were considered Anglo-Indian- so I
> think it is more nuanced and complex; and of course, race isn't always easy to categorise.
> My father was white and referred to himself as Anglo-Indian
> (Anglo-Indian mother and Anglo-Irish father). As you said, the context
> is important and the term Anglo-Indian in the sense that Woolf knew it
> and that way of life did die out when India gained its independence.
> As we know, Woolf herself was part Anglo-Indian with Julia Stephen having Bengali heritage.
>
> Warm wishes,
> Marielle
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vwoolf
> <vwoolf-bounces+m.oneill=leedstrinity.ac.uk at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf-bounces+m.oneill=leedstrinity.ac.uk at lists.osu.edu>>
> On Behalf Of Gretchen Gerzina via Vwoolf
> Sent: 03 May 2022 15:00
> To: vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script
>
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> Hello everyone,
>
> The important thing to remember in all of this is that at the time
> Woolf was writing, the term "Anglo-Indian" was used only for white
> English people living in India. It wasn't until much later that the
> term changed to refer to mixed-race English/Indian people, which is
> the way it is used today--and the way it is generally defined now in
> dictionaries. But it was not used that way when Mrs. Dalloway was
> written, as readers at that time would have understood.
>
> Similarly, the word "Creole" used to refer to all people, including
> white people, who were born and raised in the Caribbean. In the 18th
> century, it was used mainly for the plantocracy, who sent their
> (white) Caribbean offspring to live or be educated in Britain.
>
> As a mixed-race person who is keenly aware of these linguistic
> nuances, and teaches and writes about race in the UK, I think it's
> important to understand how these words were used and understood at
> the time of the writing in which they appear, and how that differs from today's usage.
>
> --Gretchen Gerzina
>
>
>
> ?On 5/2/22, 8:59 PM, "vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu on behalf of
> vwoolf-request at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf-request at lists.osu.edu>" <vwoolf-bounces at lists.osu.edu on behalf
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf (Stuart N. Clarke)
> 2. Inclusivity (Stuart N. Clarke)
> 3. Re: Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf (Alice E.
> Staveley)
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 10:49:35 +0100
> From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>
> To: <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
> Message-ID: <227D222ACACE416EBBD5E610BC2C0E47 at StuartHP>
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> Dear oh dear oh dear. So Daisy is a Eurasian, is she? I expect
> the author
> was tempted by the ref. to Daisy's being "very dark" - and ran
> with it.
> Shall we speculate on how many Eurasians were publicly married to
> majors in
> the Indian Army at that time? Daisy doesn't seem to be
> ostracised, since
> there are refs. to Majors Orde and Simmons (or is he her husband?
> the author
> thinks so). Peter Walsh has confided in Mrs Burgess in India, who has
> pointed out the disadvantages of his marrying Daisy, but she has
> made no
> ref. to the enormous additional problems he would face in marrying a
> divorced mixed-race woman.
>
> Instead of "There?s something wonderfully subversive about taking a
> well-known Western text and flipping it inside out to reveal societal
> truths", it's sounds more like piggy-backing on Woolf to sell
> copies of this
> (fantasy) novel.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristin Czarnecki via Vwoolf
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 10:04 PM
> To: Virginia Woolf
> Subject: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>
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>
> A new book explores the character of Daisy from MD.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kristin
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 11:26:31 +0100
> From: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>
> To: <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>>
> Subject: [Vwoolf] Inclusivity
> Message-ID: <E7550605DF6848649FD24F9E22A2B096 at StuartHP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Wasn?t some reviewer/commentator quoted on this list not long ago,
> saying that great writers were never inclusive, or some such rubbish?
>
> What we do have to remember that inclusivity as we understand it
> nowadays is a very recent way of looking at the world (pace Mrs
> Swithin and Prof Godbole). Previously, distinguishing people one from the other ?
> exclusivity ? was how one looked at life.
>
> ?*doct(o)ress.* It is a serious inconvenience that neither form
> (-tress would be the better) has been brought into any but facetious
> use as a prefixed title? (H. W. Fowler, ?A Dictionary of Modern
> English Usage
> (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1926), p. 120a
>
> ?What has given Jenufa this strange idea, that her dress is so
> plain and sombre on her wedding day??
> ?What, Jenufa? All the finest gentry dress plainly and simply
> when they go to the altar!?
> ?Gentle folk have their own fashions and customs, but we are only
> simple people! I?d never dream of being wed without my bridal crown
> and ribbons never! Never!?
> (Libretto to Janacek?s opera)
>
> Of course, in 3G Woolf deplores the uniforms and badges of
> distinction that set men off from one another. Of course, she writes:
> ?it seems to me the wrong way to live, drawing chalk marks round ones feet, and saying ...
> you can?t come in? (L no. 3111). But she?s a long way from
> inclusivity in the modern sense.
>
> I?m was reminded about isolated people were from one another, when
> I was reading recently two collections I?ve had for 45 years, ?My Cambridge?
> and ?My Oxford? (I hadn?t realised how miserable Nigel Nicolson was at
> Balliol).
>
> ?it was not till my first term at Cambridge that I spoke to my
> first Jew and met my first black man (from Blackpool and Jamaica respectively)?
> (John Vaizey (1929-84), went up to Queens? in 1948).
>
> There could be an advantage if you were gay: ?I think I can safely
> say that, until I went to Oxford, I had never known anyone of
> working-class background. There had, of course, been my London
> promiscuous sexual encounters. Many of these had been with cockney working-class young men.
> But this life which had begun before I was sixteen was a world as
> separate from my daily life as were my dreams ... Apart from that, the
> only working-class people I had known were servants ? and, given my
> family?s near penury, these were not many. I had never known anyone
> well who came from north of the Home Counties; and, apart from one
> visit with my father to Scotland ... I had never penetrated into England north of Hampstead?
> (Angus Wilson (1913-91, went up to Merton in 1935).
>
> Stuart
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 00:59:10 +0000
> From: "Alice E. Staveley" <staveley at stanford.edu<mailto:staveley at stanford.edu>>
> To: "Stuart N. Clarke" <stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com<mailto:stuart.n.clarke at btinternet.com>>
> Cc: "vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>" <vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
> Message-ID: <14324AE1-CED9-4D46-B055-526F0F789A1C at stanford.edu<mailto:14324AE1-CED9-4D46-B055-526F0F789A1C at stanford.edu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Stuart,
>
> While I have deliberated responding en groupe to this message, I
> think it?s important to note that every year I teach Mrs Dalloway
> someone asks me whether Daisy could be mixed race (Eurasian an
> outdated term to their ears). This is not naive reading or willful
> ignorance, but because there is sufficient textual ambiguity (pace
> your bullet points) around Daisy?s identity and role in the novel ? a
> novel all about the deep human costs of categorical boxes that
> deleteriously hem in people?s lives ? that I take their readings as teachable moments.
>
> Textual ambiguity is a wonderful place to start unpacking all
> those thorny questions about representation, including racial, sexual,
> gendered, and class segregations, alongside their historical roots.
> Why, one might ask, should we assume Daisy is white? Statistically,
> as you note, that?s more probable, but then again those statistics
> themselves have a history students need to learn in the context of
> colonialist fears about Englishmen going to India without wives to keep them ?honest?.
> This can open up a rich seam of discussion about other legal and
> cultural prohibitions and prescriptions against miscegenation in the
> era, along with the general interrogation of the ?marriage plot' in
> Mrs Dalloway.
>
> Given my students? responses, it is not to me surprising that a
> contemporary Australian writer of Goan-Anglo Indian heritage might
> herself be inspired to find in creative adaptation of Woolf?s famous
> novel a form of reinterpretation that is more than mercenary. I have
> not read her book, but I believe, as I think the spirit of your later
> messages imply, it could help us all take a hard look at just how
> limiting are fixed categorical boxes, however much the 'nightmare of
> history? reminds us of their continuing presence.
>
> Best wishes
> Alice
>
> Alice Staveley, D.Phil.
> Senior Lecturer
> Department of English
> Stanford University
> Director | Honors English
> Director | Digital Humanities Minor
> Co-Founder
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>
> On May 2, 2022, at 2:49 AM, Stuart N. Clarke via Vwoolf <
> vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu<mailto:vwoolf at lists.osu.edu>>> wrote:
>
> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
> This Message Is From an External Sender
> This message came from outside your organization.
> |-------------------------------------------------------------------!
>
> Dear oh dear oh dear. So Daisy is a Eurasian, is she? I expect
> the author was tempted by the ref. to Daisy's being "very dark" - and
> ran with it. Shall we speculate on how many Eurasians were publicly
> married to majors in the Indian Army at that time? Daisy doesn't seem
> to be ostracised, since there are refs. to Majors Orde and Simmons (or
> is he her husband? the author thinks so). Peter Walsh has confided in
> Mrs Burgess in India, who has pointed out the disadvantages of his
> marrying Daisy, but she has made no ref. to the enormous additional
> problems he would face in marrying a divorced mixed-race woman.
>
> Instead of "There?s something wonderfully subversive about taking
> a well-known Western text and flipping it inside out to reveal
> societal truths", it's sounds more like piggy-backing on Woolf to sell
> copies of this (fantasy) novel.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Kristin Czarnecki via Vwoolf
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2022 10:04 PM
> To: Virginia Woolf
> Subject: [Vwoolf] Flipping the script on Virginia Woolf
>
> !-------------------------------------------------------------------|
> This Message Is From an External Sender
> This message came from outside your organization.
> |-------------------------------------------------------------------!
>
> A new book explores the character of Daisy from MD.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kristin
>
>
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End of Vwoolf Digest, Vol 120, Issue 6
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