[ΦTΣ][ΦTΣ][Foodsci] [*T*][*|T*£]Certified Food Scientist (IFT CFS) is questionable

[Daryl Lund]

Barbara:  I also recall the discussions early on about certification.  I 
never understood the reason for the interest (couldn't be monetary, 
could it?).  I also recall the debates about moving to a Board of 
Directors structure and the consequential requirement that we become 
engaged in the discussions through self-initiative.  But I also thought 
there would be a mechanism in which to become engaged. Since when does 
an open organization put an embargo on discussions that a "group" is 
having about a topic of interest to all? Where is all the background 
material to justify the decision?  Where is the consultant's report with 
the names of people she interviewed? There are just too many flaws in 
coming to the conclusion that we  should just accept the decision.  Just 
a thought.  Daryl

On 4/22/2012 12:45 PM, Barbara Blakistone wrote:
>
> I just can’t help but take a poke at you folks.  Some years back when 
> it was time to decide if we stayed with a Council that aired all 
> issues and had representatives from sections, divisions, and regions 
> or converted to an elected Board structure, only 18 folks were with 
> me.  Given that the majority felt it was time to let an elected Board 
> make decisions, I laid aside the old ways of doing association 
> business.  Board minutes are posted as are the names of the Board 
> members.  If you really want to know what’s going on, you’ll have to 
> take some initiative.  Back in the days of Council, it became apparent 
> to me no one was that interested until it was time for Council.  Now 
> the Board has decided on the CFS program.  I left the Board when that 
> was being vetted and yes, there were issues being debated.  At this 
> point, I would say these got resolved.  It’s way too late in the game 
> for you all to start getting engaged.  That said, you can express your 
> opinion at the Town Hall meeting at IFT.  And yes, it may be too late 
> but do it anyway.
>
> I got the invitation thru IFT Fellows and Phi Tau.
>
> barbara
>
> *From:*phitausigma-bounces+bblakistone=nfi.org at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> [mailto:phitausigma-bounces+bblakistone=nfi.org at lists.service.ohio-state.edu] 
> *On Behalf Of *Ken Swartzel
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 22, 2012 1:13 PM
> *To:* foodsci at lists.osu.edu; ptsassociate at lists.osu.edu; 
> phitausigma at lists.osu.edu
> *Cc:* Cameron Hackney
> *Subject:* Re: [ΦTΣ][Foodsci] [*T*][*|T*£]Certified Food Scientist 
> (IFT CFS) is questionable
>
> I, like Cameron, must have missed the invitation. All of my 
> information comes from the string of emails. I remember this being a 
> very old and controversial issue. However, have we truly presented 
> this issue to the membership? Have we truly had a point/counterpoint? 
> Did the membership vote on this? In any case, I certainly understand 
> both sides. Since I have no invitation I can find, I have no action to 
> take. I would hope that an issue this important would get the complete 
> surveyed input of the membership, prior to executive order. What am I 
> missing-not up on all of IFT's issues. What about the liability issue? 
> What have the IFT attorneys said about this? Maybe all of this has 
> been done, if so the outcome should be so stated. I guess I am just in 
> the dark on the latest round of this subject. Am I alone?
>
> Ken Swartzel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/22/12 8:39 AM, Cameron Hackney wrote:
>
> I agree with the comments from the majority that this is a bad idea; 
> however, I have another concern.  I must have missed the e mail about 
> the limited time offer.  It seems that if you give the test to some, 
> then give it to all.  If you get certified by exemption - what good is 
> it.  I have been teaching "better process control schools since 1981.  
> The FDA inspector for the class in 1981 insisted that I take all the 
> exams to "appreciate what the students in the classes had to 
> endure."    He was right, it added perspective.  If IFT is going to do 
> this - everyone should take the exam - including the President.  It 
> will make everyone appreciate if it is a good idea or not.  In my 
> case, I am sure that after 12 years in administration, I am not 
> current enough to do well.  Overall, I think we need to trust in our 
> programs and keep in mind that most future employees and faculty for 
> that matter, will most likely come from disciplines other than food 
> science.
>
> Best
>
> Cameron
>
>
> Cameron R. Hackney
>
> West Virginia University
> Morgantown, WV 26506
> 304  293 - 6251
>
> >>>
>
> *From: *
>
> 	
>
> Michael Doyle <mdoyle at uga.edu> <mailto:mdoyle at uga.edu>
>
> *To:*
>
> 	
>
> "Taylor C. Wallace" <twallace at crnusa.org> 
> <mailto:twallace at crnusa.org>, "Fergus M. Clydesdale" 
> <fergc at foodsci.umass.edu> <mailto:fergc at foodsci.umass.edu>
>
> *CC:*
>
> 	
>
> "foodsci at lists.osu.edu" <mailto:foodsci at lists.osu.edu> 
> <foodsci at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> 
> <mailto:foodsci at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>, 
> "ptsassociate at lists.osu.edu" <mailto:ptsassociate at lists.osu.edu> 
> <ptsassociate at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> 
> <mailto:ptsassociate at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>, 
> "phitausigma at lists.osu.edu" <mailto:phitausigma at lists.osu.edu> 
> <phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> 
> <mailto:phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
>
> *Date: *
>
> 	
>
> 4/21/2012 9:12 PM
>
> *Subject: *
>
> 	
>
> Re: [Foodsci][ΦTΣ][Ξ|TΞ£]Certified Food Scientist (IFT CFS) is 
> questionable
>
> I concur with Ferg. This is a terrible idea. This year will be my last 
> IFT meeting.
>     Mike Doyle
>
> Michael P. Doyle, Ph.D.
> Regents Professor and Director
> Center for Food Safety
> University of Georgia
> 1109 Experiment Street
> Griffin, GA  30223-1797
> Tel:  770-228-7284
> Fax: 770-229-3216
> e-mail: mdoyle at uga.edu <mailto:mdoyle at uga.edu>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: phitausigma-bounces+mdoyle=uga.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> <mailto:phitausigma-bounces+mdoyle=uga.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu> 
> [phitausigma-bounces+mdoyle=uga.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> <mailto:phitausigma-bounces+mdoyle=uga.edu at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>] 
> on behalf of Taylor C. Wallace [twallace at crnusa.org 
> <mailto:twallace at crnusa.org>]
> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 5:21 PM
> To: Fergus M. Clydesdale
> Cc: foodsci at lists.osu.edu <mailto:foodsci at lists.osu.edu>; 
> ptsassociate at lists.osu.edu <mailto:ptsassociate at lists.osu.edu>; 
> phitausigma at lists.osu.edu <mailto:phitausigma at lists.osu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ΦTΣ][Ξ|TΞ£]Certified Food Scientist (IFT CFS) is 
> questionable
>
> I'm actually really looking forward to taking the exam and obtaining 
> my CFS.  It's a great opportunity for young professionals! I think PTS 
> members could play a positive role in the examination process and 
> helping young professionals get their certification!
>
> Taylor
>
> Taylor C. Wallace, PhD, FACN
> Senior Director, Scientific & Regulatory Affairs
> Council for Responsible Nutrition
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 21, 2012, at 2:06 PM, "Fergus M. Clydesdale" 
> <fergc at foodsci.umass.edu> <mailto:fergc at foodsci.umass.edu> wrote:
>
> > A terrible ridiculous idea
> > I am truly saddened that IFT has come to this for far too many 
> reasons to enumerate
> > Best regards to all
> > Ferg
> >
> > On 4/21/2012 3:39 PM, Lee, Ken wrote:
> >> T: Phi Tau Sigma Members
> >> F: Ken Lee, President of Phi Tau Sigma
> >> R: IFT CFS Credential
> >> C: fsadmin
> >>
> >> *IFT President Roger Clemens sent most members* an email with a special
> >> limited time offer (rsvp May 25) to bypass a certification exam. Some
> >> believe this is a poorly conceived revenue generator for a once
> >> professional society that has morphed into an income fixated non-profit
> >> trade group. Others believe the certification brings a long overdue,
> >> invaluable professional credential to the discipline of food science. I
> >> clip below in case you missed it early responses from some of our most
> >> respected members, former IFT Presidents and leaders within Phi Tau
> >> Sigma and the profession. Perhaps you can formulate your own 
> opinion and
> >> share it with elected leaders at IFT.
> >>
> >> I will note with some irony that the PBS news program recently aired an
> >> "expose" on the questionable certification program for forensic 
> experts.
> >> This of course has little to do with food science, but it illustrates
> >> some of the mischief associated with certificates in other professions.
> >> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/real-csi/no-forensic-background-no-problem/
> >> Steve Barrett provides one of the best summaries of questionable
> >> credentials in a field closer to ours, nutrition:
> >> http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/nutritionist.html
> >>
> >> As your president, I share my opinion that certificates should be the
> >> domain of higher education, but the academics have failed to date in
> >> providing a well run program of integrity. The revenue potential is
> >> significant and we notice that the for-profits (eg Phoenix, DeVry, 
> etc.)
> >> have not yet entered this business. One reason is there is limited
> >> integrity and questionable motives in what certificates accomplish. As
> >> food science provides both health and the absence of harm, we must take
> >> care that there is no possibility of serious injury from a CFS
> >> credentialed person. It is this latter point that is most troubling, as
> >> few 501c3 organizations carry the legal protections to underwrite such
> >> liability. We thank Roger and the well intentioned professionals at IFT
> >> for bringing this issue to the front burner and welcome the 
> discourse it
> >> provokes.
> >> *-Ken Lee, President of ΦTΣ*
> >>
> >> /p.s. I have blind copied the original addresses below, so some members
> >> may get double messages and I apologize for such redundancy./
> >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:* Ted Labuza PhD [tplabuza at umn.edu <mailto:tplabuza at umn.edu>]
> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 7:45 PM
> >> *To:* Roger Clemens; Bob Gravani; John Ruff; Bruce Stillings; Catherine
> >> Adams; Brenda Knapp-Polzin; Colin Dennis; Mike Davidson; Douglas
> >> Marshall; Linda Perucca; Bob Ross; Marilyn Schorin; Craig Sherwin;
> >> Justin Shimek; Barry Swanson; Ray Winger; Lee, Ken; Suzanne Nielsen;
> >> Daryl Lund; John Finley; John Floros; Mary Schmidl; Robert Shewfelt;
> >> Greg Ziegler; Richard Stier; Joe Regenstein; Les Herzog; Pat Dunne; 
> Phil
> >> Nelson; Richard Hall; Gilbert Leveille; Litchfield, John; Dave 
> Lineback;
> >> Frank Busta; Chuck Manley; Mary Wagner; Rich Hartel
> >> *Subject:* Re: Certified Food Scientist (CFS) Update
> >>
> >> roger
> >>
> >> I totally agree with Denny. I feel to is a bad idea and should be
> >> abandoned now not later. Note that the Mech. Eng. processional
> >> association was sued because one of their members designed a boiler
> >> wrong. They lost $$4.5MM out of their endowment. I don't see the
> >> industry clamoring for this and this will not stop them from hiring 
> Chem
> >> Eng. who would not have a food science background. Also it would not
> >> make sense for MS and PhD students who will be seeking jobs in the
> >> future but may have no undergrad food science. Currently I have 5 of
> >> those who fit that chracteristic. It seems to me a money making scheme
> >> that will likely be ignored. And most importantly if it can't be 
> stopped
> >> it should go through HERB.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Mary Schmidl <mschmidl at umn.edu 
> <mailto:mschmidl at umn.edu>
> >> <mailto:mschmidl at umn.edu>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> =
> >> Roger: I also received your invitation to become a "certified food
> >> scientist," and, quite frankly, I am inclined to decline since I see
> >> absolutely no value in it. Furthermore, if I were a chemical engineer
> >> working in the food industry in product development, I would wonder why
> >> I need this. Here are some questions to complement those of Dennis
> >> (which are very good questions). Daryl
> >>
> >> Process:
> >> 1. As a member of the Education Community, we have had absolutely no
> >> discussion on this topic (unless I have been oblivious to it).
> >> 2. Was the topic presented to the CFSA group for consideration?
> >> 3. Was industry asking for this because of some specific use? Do they
> >> want this to verify that people they hire are capable of designing food
> >> products and processes, etc.?
> >> 4. Were graduates of our food science programs and those working in the
> >> food industry asking for certification because it would serve a 
> specific
> >> purpose? If so, what was the purpose?
> >> 5. Were food science educators asking for certification because they
> >> wanted to protect their territory within the academy? After all,
> >> microbiology, chemistry, biochemistry, agricultural (biological)
> >> engineering and chemical engineering among others are all educating
> >> students that may eventually be hired by the food industry.
> >> 6. Regarding specifically the process to arrive at the conclusion 
> by the
> >> Board of Directors to adopt a strategy for "certification," I wonder
> >> about the following (since no report on this was ever shared with the
> >> membership of IFT - at least none that I am aware of.
> >> a. Appoint a work group or Task Force to evaluate idea of certification
> >> (include at least one member of the Board of Directors on the WG/TF).
> >> b. Establish a hypothesis (e.g. Certification will help define the
> >> profession and protect the profession from charlatans).
> >> c. Set up a protocol to determine the interest of the following groups
> >> in certification: industry, food science faculty, food science
> >> administrators, recent graduates of food science programs, recent hires
> >> from fields other than food science, etc.).
> >> d. Draft a report that can be fully vetted with membership including
> >> specifically asking comment from CFSA, Education Community, VPs of food
> >> industry, people who hire food scientists, HERB, etc.
> >> e. Modify the report based on comments that are submitted.
> >> f. Submit final report to the Board of Directors. The Board of Director
> >> member on the WG/TF should make the report along with the chair of the
> >> WG/TF/
> >> g. Decision by the Board of Directors
> >>
> >> This seems to me to be a reasonable approach to decision making and I
> >> hope was followed in coming to this conclusion that certification is
> >> necessary and needed.
> >> Look forward to any comments coming forth. Daryl Lund, IFT President
> >> 1990-1991
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:* Finley, John W. [JFinley at agcenter.lsu.edu 
> <mailto:JFinley at agcenter.lsu.edu>]
> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 9:56 PM
> >> *To:* Dennis R Heldman; Roger Clemens, DrPH, CNS, FACN, FIFT
> >> *Cc:* Bob Gravani; John Ruff; Bruce Stillings; Catherine Adams; Brenda
> >> Knapp-Polzin; Colin Dennis; Mike Davidson; Douglas Marshall; Linda
> >> Perucca; Bob Ross; Marilyn Schorin; Craig Sherwin; Justin Shimek; Barry
> >> Swanson; Ray Winger; Lee, Ken; Suzanne Nielsen; Daryl Lund; John 
> Floros;
> >> Mary Schmidl; Robert Shewfelt; Greg Ziegler; Richard Stier; Joe
> >> Regenstein; Les Herzog; Pat Dunne; Phil Nelson; Richard Hall; Gilbert
> >> Leveille; Litchfield, John; Dave Lineback; Frank Busta; Chuck Manley;
> >> Mary Wagner; Rich Hartel
> >> *Subject:* RE: Certified Food Scientist (CFS) Update
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >> The Certified Food Science program is a really bad idea. I fought it
> >> without much success on the board. IFT is opening itself to enormous
> >> liability issues, Not to mention, further insulting academic programs
> >> that produce highly qualified programs already. It is pretty clear that
> >> the real motivation of this is a strictly a revenue stream for IFT.
> >> There has been a lot of time and resources (consultants) invested in
> >> this. Diversion form the focus of IFT. I strongly urge you to cut the
> >> losses and stop it NOW. Please feel free to contact me if you have any
> >> questions about where I stand.
> >>
> >> We have a wonderful profession and a great organization, let's not put
> >> at risk over an unnecessary diversion.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> John W. Finley
> >>
> >> Professor and Head, Food Science
> >>
> >> Louisiana State University
> >>
> >> Baton Rouge, LA 70803
> >>
> >> Office: 225 578 5085
> >>
> >> Cell: 225 571 2711
> >>
> >> jfinley at agcenter.lsu.edu <mailto:jfinley at agcenter.lsu.edu>
> >>
> >> *From:* Dennis R Heldman [mailto:drheldman at earthlink.net]
> >> *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 4:36 PM
> >> *To:* Roger Clemens, DrPH, CNS, FACN, FIFT
> >> *Cc:* Bob Gravani; John Ruff; Bruce Stillings; Catherine Adams; Brenda
> >> Knapp-Polzin; Colin Dennis; Mike Davidson; Douglas Marshall; Linda
> >> Perucca; Bob Ross; Marilyn Schorin; Craig Sherwin; Justin Shimek; Barry
> >> Swanson; Ray Winger; Ken Lee; Suzanne Nielsen; Daryl Lund; Finley, John
> >> W.; John Floros; Mary Schmidl; Robert Shewfelt; Greg Ziegler; Richard
> >> Stier; Joe Regenstein; Les Herzog; Pat Dunne; Phil Nelson; Richard 
> Hall;
> >> Gilbert Leveille; John Litchfield; Dave Lineback; Frank Busta; Chuck
> >> Manley; Mary Wagner; Rich Hartel
> >> *Subject:* Re: Certified Food Scientist (CFS) Update
> >>
> >> Roger - many of us are really trying to keep an open mind and 
> understand
> >> the rationale of a Certified Food Scientist! Unfortunately, it is
> >> difficult to find answers for many of the questions associated with 
> this
> >> new IFT initiative. For example:
> >>
> >> 1. How, exactly, does "certification" enhance the Food Science &
> >> Technology profession? IFT already approves undergraduate programs to
> >> ensure uniformity among Food Science
> >>
> >> professionals.
> >>
> >> 2. Is IFT prepared to deal with liability issues associated with
> >> "certification"?
> >>
> >> 3. At what point in time can a graduate from an undergraduate program
> >> take an examination and become certified? Is there a period of work
> >> experience required before certification
> >>
> >> is possible?
> >>
> >> 4. How can IFT prevent this initiative from undermining the efforts of
> >> the HERB?
> >>
> >> 5. Who will determine the content of the examination to be taken before
> >> the applicant is certified?
> >>
> >> 6. How will certification fill the talent pipeline beyond those already
> >> pursuing Food Science & Technology careers?
> >>
> >> 7. Will certification provide a pathway for individuals from 
> backgrounds
> >> other than Food Science to become food science professionals?
> >>
> >> In order to ensure that the integrity of IFT Approve Undergraduate
> >> Programs is not compromised, the "certification" initiative must be
> >> managed by the Higher Education Review Board (HERB). The core
> >> competencies established by the HERB define and maintain the Food
> >> Science & Technology profession. The examination questions must be
> >> created by faculty involved in teaching courses associated with the
> >> approved programs. Literally, it should be impossible to pass the
> >> certification examination without meeting the core competencies
> >> established by the HERB.
> >>
> >> Bottom line, unless the two programs (IFT Approved Programs and IFT
> >> Certification) are closely coordinated, the integrity of approved
> >> programs will be undermined, and the role of the Food Science academic
> >> community will be diminished. If the Council of Food Science
> >> Administrators (CFSA) has endorsed this certification effort, it is not
> >> evident.
> >>
> >> Hopefully, there is more background on this initiative to be shared.
> >>
> >> Denny Heldman
> >>
> >> Dennis R. Heldman, PhD
> >> Heldman Associates
> >> 5224 Kings Mills Rd; #314
> >> Mason, OH 45040
> >> drheldman at earthlink.net <mailto:drheldman at earthlink.net> 
> <mailto:drheldman at earthlink.net>
> >> 203-770-0508
> >>
> >> *From:* Roger Clemens, DrPH, CNS, FACN, FIFT <mailto:noreply at ift.org>
> >>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:45 AM
> >>
> >> *To:* Dennis Heldman <mailto:drheldman at earthlink.net>
> >>
> >> *Subject:* Certified Food Scientist (CFS) Update
> >>
> >> International Food Science Certification Committee
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Dennis,
> >>
> >> This is a critical time for the food science profession. There is
> >> heightened attention on global food needs and feeding the world's
> >> growing population. As food scientists, we know the important
> >> contributions that food science research and innovation has made and
> >> will need to make in meeting food safety and sufficiency 
> challenges. One
> >> of our organizational strategic goals is to ensure that the visibility
> >> and prominence of food science-and food scientists-is well recognized
> >> and acknowledged. To help do so, we are pleased to announce the launch
> >> of a new initiative, the Certified Food Scientist (CFS) credential.
> >>
> >> Through this credential, for the first time, our profession will have a
> >> formal certification program to recognize the applied scientific
> >> knowledge and skills of food scientists. This certification, 
> obtained by
> >> passing an exam, tests food scientists on a central body of knowledge
> >> that defines the core professional competencies of a food scientist and
> >> serves as a mark of distinction and trust. We are excited that this
> >> certification will help fill the talent pipeline so that organizations
> >> can readily identify qualified personnel in the global food industry.
> >>
> >> As an IFT leader, you have been part of the strategic vision that
> >> continues to shape our profession. You have served as a mentor to our
> >> community and contributed to countless scientific advances in food
> >> science. To recognize these important achievements, we have created a
> >> One Time Alternative Assessment program for leaders like you. It allows
> >> you to obtain the CFS certification through a peer review process,
> >> *instead of taking the certification examination*. As a token of our
> >> immense gratitude, we would like to honor you for your exceptional
> >> leadership by waiving the application fee and, following approval,
> >> recognizing you this June at the IFT Annual Meeting & Food Expo. In
> >> order to do so, we ask that you please apply for your One Time
> >> Alternative Assessment by *May 25, 2012*.
> >>
> >> I hope I can count on you as a dedicated IFT leader to attain the CFS
> >> credential as a demonstration of your continued leadership and
> >> recognition of the importance of lifelong learning. By being one of the
> >> first to attain the CFS, we can inspire other food scientists to do the
> >> same. As prominent members of IFT, we also have the privilege and
> >> opportunity of serving as examples for our community as we continue to
> >> raise the prominence and credibility of our profession.
> >>
> >> For more information on how to apply for the One Time Alternative
> >> Assessment and to learn more about the CFS, please visit
> >> *ift.org/cfsota* <http://listserv.ift.org/t/1618056/7902966/110551/0/>
> >> or email *info at ift.org* <mailto:*info at ift.org*> <mailto:info at ift.org>.
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> *Roger Clemens, DrPH, CNS, FACN, FIFT
> >> *IFT President
> >>
> >> Blue Divider
> >>
> >> *Institute of Food Technologists* 525 W. Van Buren, Suite 1000. 
> Chicago,
> >> IL 60607
> >> © 2012 Institute of Food Technologists. All rights reserved. *ift.org*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Phitausigma mailing list
> >> Phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> <mailto:Phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
> >> https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/phitausigma
> >
> > --
> > Ferg Clydesdale
> > UMass Department of Food Science
> > fergc at fooodsci.umass.edu <mailto:fergc at fooodsci.umass.edu>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phitausigma mailing list
> > Phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu 
> <mailto:Phitausigma at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>
> > https://lists.service.ohio-state.edu/mailman/listinfo/phitausigma
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> -- 
> Kenneth R Swartzel, Coordinator Bioprocessing Programs
> College of Agriculture and Life Sciences
> William Neal Reynolds Distinguished Professor
> Director, Kellogg/APLU Food Systems Leadership Institute
> North Carolina State University
> Box 7624
> 129 Schaub Hall
> Raleigh, NC 27695-7624
> 919-513-2063, cell-919-608-5800, 919-515-7124 (fax)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Daryl Lund, Emeritus Professor UW-Madison WI&AZ Home 608-250-0659 Cell 
608-852-4227
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