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Thanks Jasmin and Bob. There is no geresh or gershayim. It's just as it would appear in a siddur. Caroline Caroline R. Miller Team Leader, Discovery Team Hebraica/Judaica Metadata Librarian UCLA Library Resource Acquisitions and Metadata Services
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Thanks Jasmin and Bob. There is no geresh or gershayim. It's just as it would appear in a siddur.</div>
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Caroline </div>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><span style="font-family: "Lucida Handwriting", "Apple Chancery", cursive; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>Caroline R. Miller</b> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">Team Leader, Discovery Team </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 13.3333px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Hebraica/Judaica Metadata Librarian</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Shinohara, Jasmin <jshino@upenn.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 7, 2024 5:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Robert M. TALBOTT <rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu>; Miller, Caroline <crmiller@library.ucla.edu>; atau@loc.gov <atau@loc.gov><br>
<b>Cc:</b> rsimon@Princeton.EDU <rsimon@Princeton.EDU>; 'jbiella2632@gmail.com' <jbiella2632@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Heb-NACO] Fwd: Name of divinity</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Actually, upon further thought, the Princeton romanization form doesn’t make sense. Our practice is not to spell out what an initialism stands for. Even if
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">י"י</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> stands for Yeya Yeyi, we don’t write
it out, just as when representing </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ע"ש</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>
we do so as ‘a. sh., not ‘al shem. </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The people responsible for the Princeton site are retired, so I’m not sure we’re going to get any insight from them.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I’d be happy to hear from someone at LC…</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks, Jasmin</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+jshino=upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 7, 2024 7:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Robert M. TALBOTT <rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Miller, Caroline <crmiller@library.ucla.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Fwd: Name of divinity</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:1.0pt; color:white">I guess the question boils down to whether there’s a geresh or gershayim between the yods. If so, the Princeton form makes sense. If it’s just two yods next to each other, though, with
no <”>, the HCM-RDA guidance indicates the practice </span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I guess the question boils down to whether there’s a geresh or gershayim between the yods. If so, the Princeton form makes sense.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If it’s just two yods next to each other, though, with no <”>, the
<i>HCM-RDA</i> guidance indicates the practice is to represent the letters as they appear (and as seen in the other LC records), Y.Y..</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Kol tuv, Jasmin</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 7, 2024 6:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>; Miller, Caroline <<a href="mailto:crmiller@library.ucla.edu">crmiller@library.ucla.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] Fwd: Name of divinity</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:1.0pt; color:white">For me, "Yeya" works just fine since it's supported both in the targumim and in Even Shoshan. Too, Princeton advises its use also. https: //library. princeton. edu/departments/tsd/katmandu/hebrew/y8. html
Cheers ---------- Forwarded </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">For me, "Yeya" works just fine since it's supported both in the targumim and in Even Shoshan. Too, Princeton advises its use also.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/library.princeton.edu/departments/tsd/katmandu/hebrew/y8.html__;!!KGKeukY!ygJfZAs-Pk4Ghre21Lg4JeuXml98YI0YmlS-jRBO0RKMOtFgR0H-24GJLkR4-8rw-7kZyoOK6VVqCRU9BjkzG2Dg24lgow357A$">https://library.princeton.edu/departments/tsd/katmandu/hebrew/y8.html</a></span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheers</span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Shinohara, Jasmin</span></strong> <<a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu">jshino@upenn.edu</a>><br>
Date: Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 3:39 PM<br>
Subject: RE: [Heb-NACO] Name of divinity<br>
To: Robert M. TALBOTT <<a href="mailto:rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu">rtalbott@library.berkeley.edu</a>>, Miller, Caroline <<a href="mailto:crmiller@library.ucla.edu">crmiller@library.ucla.edu</a>></span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">There are exactly 2 records in LC that use Yeya (the one you cite and lccn2011383449, which oddly has both Yeya and Yeyi). In contrast, there are several more records that use Y.Y. So much for “past
practice”. I’m also not sure that anyone, with the exception of scholars, are aware that there is a vocalized form, or how useful that form is to the user.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The <i>HCM-RDA </i>
specifies: “</span><span style="font-family:"ArialUnicodeMS",sans-serif">Abbreviations representing the Tetragrammaton are romanized as they appear.”
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Just my half pfennig…</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+jshino=<a href="mailto:pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 7, 2024 6:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Miller, Caroline <<a href="mailto:crmiller@library.ucla.edu" target="_blank">crmiller@library.ucla.edu</a>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Name of divinity</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:1.0pt; color:white">It's pointed with a sheva and a kamats in Onkelos and in Targum Yonatan (e. g. Exodus 35: 1), romanized as Yeya by LC in the past (OCLC 46431749). It seems to me that if it's pointed
and already past practice, there's no reason to </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">It's pointed with a sheva and a kamats in Onkelos and in Targum Yonatan (e.g. Exodus 35:1), romanized as Yeya by LC in the past (OCLC 46431749). It seems to me that if it's pointed and already past
practice, there's no reason to further complicate the issue with initialisms.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bob</span></p>
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</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 2:50 PM Miller, Caroline via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none; border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt; padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-top:5.0pt; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:1.0pt; color:white">All, The third word of a title I have is a divine name (double yod):
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">אלה מועדי</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>. . . . How would I transcribe this? HCM only includes instructions for the Tetragrammaton and some one letter abbreviations
on p. 30. Thanks. Caroline Caroline R. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">All,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The third word of a title I have is a divine name (double yod):
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">אלה מועדי...
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span><span lang="AR-SA" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><span dir="RTL"></span><span dir="RTL"></span> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">How would I transcribe this? HCM only includes instructions for the Tetragrammaton and some one letter abbreviations on p. 30.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Caroline</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Lucida Handwriting"; color:black">Caroline R. Miller</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">Team Leader, Discovery Team</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">Hebraica/Judaica Metadata Librarian</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">UCLA Library Resource Acquisitions and Metadata Services</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">2400 Life Sciences Building</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">621 Charles E Young Drive South
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">Box 957230 </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black">Los Angeles, CA 90095-7230</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
Heb-naco mailing list<br>
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<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco__;!!IBzWLUs!W0HkxcyI7FtCMr5tyRyBf3m1DbGfNYcuARRzG_2iKNkn-2tnjAjn71f9wnAgKoInDWtjBWgIgsIMzNTk9IPa08ze_tE$" target="_blank">https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco</a></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span class="x_m-1758859184103393837gmailsignatureprefix"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">--
</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
130 Doe<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lue musaraba shu biburueada Bilgameshe nam habadabkure.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span class="x_gmailsignatureprefix"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">--
</span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bob Talbott<br>
<br>
Hebraica cataloger<br>
<br>
UC Berkeley<br>
<br>
130 Doe<br>
<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lue musaraba shu biburueada Bilgameshe nam habadabkure.</span></p>
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</div>
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