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Yes, samekh and sin (and sof) are always distinguished. From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces@ lists. osu. edu> On Behalf Of Barry Dov Walfish via Heb-naco Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4: 51 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@ lists. osu. edu>;
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, samekh and sin (and sof) are always distinguished.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Barry Dov Walfish via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Heidi G Lerner <lerner@stanford.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">It’s in Weinreich also as khosn. So no differentiation between samekh and sin? On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4: 34 PM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco <heb-naco@ lists. osu. edu>
wrote: Hi Caroline My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I would <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It’s in Weinreich also as khosn.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So no differentiation between samekh and sin?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4:34 PM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Hi Caroline My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I would romanize it as "Aḥosn" "Use Weinreich and Niborski as guides for romanization of vowels and
most consonants. However, differentiate between <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">כ/ח</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> and
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">תּ/ט, כּ/ק </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Hi Caroline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I would romanize it as "Aḥosn"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">"Use Weinreich and Niborski as guides for romanization of vowels and most consonants.
<b><i>However, differentiate between <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">כ/ח</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> and
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">תּ/ט, כּ/ק</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> with the underscore dots and transcribe final
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">ה</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> with an “h.” When Weinreich offers a choice of romanizations, the first is adopted</i></b>.
<b><i>If a Hebrew two-word expression is written as two words in a Yiddish context, this spacing is imitated in the romanization.</i></b> Hebrew Script Weinreich Niborski ALA-LC Romanization
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">טוב יום</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> YONTEV/YONTEF
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">יאָנטעװ</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> yon ṭev Kiper Yin
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">יאָנקיפּער/יאָמקיפּער</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> YONKIPER/YINKIPER
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">יום כיפור הסופר עזרא</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> -- -- Ezra ha-Soyfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I could not locate "<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">חתן</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>" in Weinrich so I went to Niborski. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Just my thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">best, Heidi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>> on behalf of Miller, Caroline via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 27, 2023 9:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> HEB-NACO List Posting (<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>) <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">All, I have a Yiddish literary work published in Vilna in 1897. The first word in the title is
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">אחתן</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> with patah under
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">א</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>, kamats under both
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">ח</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> and
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL">ת</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>. The copy I see for a later edition romanizes it as “Aḥos̀n” but I don’t know how the nikud appeared
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I have a Yiddish literary work published in Vilna in 1897. The first word in the title is
<span lang="JI" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:yellow">
אחתן</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> with patah under
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:yellow">
א</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>, kamats under both
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:yellow">
ח</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> and
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:yellow">
ת</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="background:yellow"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">The copy I see for a later edition romanizes it as “Aḥos̀n” but I don’t know how the nikud appeared on that piece. Wouldn’t my piece be romanized “Aḥos̀on?” because of the two successively appearing kamatsim?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Wishing you all a happy Sukkot!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Caroline<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Lucida Handwriting";color:black">Caroline R. Miller</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Team Leader, Discovery Team</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">UCLA Library Resource Acquisitions and Metadata Services</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">2400 Life Sciences Building</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.google.com/maps/search/621*Charles*E*Young*Drive*South?entry=gmail&source=g__;KysrKys!!KGKeukY!19GzUxkN9pRcoQjc6E7N876yHnkn6t8jCwxeyMF3WUs4HIrk-A0PnshMzbGKL6AVhDF0DktAzDQqFY8X8BGsGS8dv4EW9Ok$">621
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