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This is an interesting discussion: Her is my take: Jamsin, the examples you listed are “constructs” of two nouns connected together, and when the first word of the construct ends with a long vowel, the following letter, (in this case, the first
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<span style="color: black;" class="ContentPasted1">This is an interesting discussion:<o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="color: black;" class="ContentPasted1 elementToProof">Her is my take: <o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="background: white; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);" class="ContentPasted1">Jamsin, the examples you listed are “constructs” of two nouns connected together, and when the first word of the construct ends with a long vowel, the following letter, (in this
case, the first letter of the second word), loses its dagesh, </span><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin" class="ContentPasted1">like it would within a single word. I’m not one
hundred percent sure if this happens consistently; there may be exceptions, but I believe this is the answer.<span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; padding: 0in; background: white; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);"><o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<span style="border: 1pt none windowtext; padding: 0in; background: white; color: rgb(36, 36, 36);" class="ContentPasted1">Unfortuantely, I could not find this documented anywhere. Cliff, or our other noted grammarians, could you please weigh in on my theory
or take it one step further.</span><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"><o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="color: black;" class="ContentPasted1">Heidi G. Lerner<o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="color: black;" class="ContentPasted1">Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University Libraries<o:p class="ContentPasted1"> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+lerner=stanford.edu@lists.osu.edu> on behalf of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 10, 2023 1:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Cliff Miller <CLMILLER@JTSA.EDU>; heb-naco <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Rose Shoshanah Seidman <sseidman@northwestern.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanisation of בביזנטיון</font>
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Hi, Cliff. Yes, technically and ideally, you are correct. But expecting catalogers to know when a second word should aspirated would be expecting a knowledge of Hebrew grammar that is unrealistic for almost all of us. We suffice with knowledge
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi, Cliff.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes, technically and ideally, you are correct. But expecting catalogers to know when a second word should aspirated would be expecting a knowledge of Hebrew grammar that is unrealistic for almost all of us. We suffice with knowledge
of prefixes/little words and their impact on </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">בג"ד כפ"ת</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>/beged
kefet, i.e., that it is correctly romanized bi-Vene. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Exceptions are</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">מראה כהן
</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">and
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">שפתי כהן</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>, Marʼeh Khohen and Śifte Khohen,
respectively, which are from a piyut and a pasuk, respectively, so we try to follow the sources. But there are still plenty of records with Marʼeh/Śifte K/kohen…</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cliff Miller via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 10, 2023 10:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rose Shoshanah Seidman <sseidman@northwestern.edu>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanisation of <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בביזנטיון</span></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 1pt; color: white;">Did I overlook an obvious answer? I do not recall seeing anyone who suggested Bi-Vene Verak Ki-Vene Verak Li-Vene Verak Mi-Bene Verak Shouldn’t this be the accepted form? Rabbi Clifford B Miller, MLS, DD Home: [973]
228-3139 Library of the </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Did I overlook an obvious answer?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">I do not recall seeing anyone who suggested</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Bi-Vene Verak</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Ki-Vene Verak</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Li-Vene Verak</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mi-Bene Verak</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt">Shouldn’t this be the accepted form?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Rabbi </span><span style="font-family:Papyrus">Clifford B Miller</span><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">, MLS, DD Home: [973] 228-3139</span></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
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