<div dir="ltr">This is just a unicode/display issue. It is probably an email setting that does not encode the non-roman correctly</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:14 AM Stahl, Sheryl via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
When I get these messages, many of the characters show up as ??? is there a way to view what they are? (actual question mark ;-) )<br>
<br>
Sheryl<br>
<br>
<br>
Sheryl Stahl<br>
Library Director<br>
Frances-Henry Library<br>
<br>
Hebrew Union College-<br>
Jewish Institute of Religion<br>
Jack H. Skirball Campus<br>
3077 University Avenue<br>
Los Angeles, CA 90007-3796<br>
<br>
(213) 765-2127<br>
<a href="mailto:sstahl@huc.edu" target="_blank">sstahl@huc.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://www.huc.edu/libraries/LA" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.huc.edu/libraries/LA</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Heb-naco [mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>] On Behalf Of <a href="mailto:heb-naco-request@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-request@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 11:41 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><br>
Subject: Heb-naco Digest, Vol 103, Issue 4<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: ???? (Shinohara, Jasmin)<br>
<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:44:51 +0000<br>
From: "Shinohara, Jasmin" <<a href="mailto:jshino@pobox.upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@pobox.upenn.edu</a>><br>
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CH2PR10MB391058C5E4EF647B8914A83B9D890@CH2PR10MB3910.namprd10.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">CH2PR10MB391058C5E4EF647B8914A83B9D890@CH2PR10MB3910.namprd10.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
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Yes, this was resolved back in February, with the critical text from HCM p. 21 (?In the rare cases where Even-Shoshan may show the same word under more than one entry element, the more 'analytical' option is chosen.?) re-added to HCMRDA, and we agreed that standard romanization of ???? is bi-gelal (and ????? is bi-shevil in all cases).<br>
<br>
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+jshino=<a href="mailto:pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Joan Biella via Heb-naco<br>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 7:10 PM<br>
To: Yossi Galron via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
<br>
Jasmine writes:<br>
<br>
???? has a direct entry, so I?d think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says ?see ????. So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?<br>
<br>
Doesn't HCM say, more or less, "If Even-Shoshan gives both, use THE MORE ANALYTICAL FORM"--that is, the form with the hyphen? This is done, in the same way as we write "Yerushalayim," so the 2nd part of the word will be searchable. Not that I expect people who want to search "biglal" will search "gelal" and expect to find it, but people wanting "Yerushalayim" will find "bi-Yerushalayim" also. And so that all catalogers will romanize these things the same way, after having once looked them up in the dictionary.<br>
<br>
Joan<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:29 PM Yossi Galron via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
Bi-melot ...<br>
<br>
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 22:28 Marlene Schiffman via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
We have a title that uses this word: Ze?ev Z'abo?ins?i, ha-ish u-mishnato : \b (bi-melot me?ah shanah le-huladto)<br>
<br>
Marlene Schiffman<br>
Gottesman Library Technical Services<br>
Yeshiva University<br>
500 West 185th Street<br>
New York, NY 10033<br>
<br>
646 592-4276 (direct)<br>
646 592-4100 (general office)<br>
<br>
From: Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+schiffma=<a href="mailto:yu.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">yu.edu@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:yu.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">yu.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Abend-David,Ilana via Heb-naco<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 1:07 PM<br>
To: Galron, Joseph <<a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a>>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
<br>
If so how would you transliterate ?????? 25 ??? ? Would this be correct bi-melo'ut ?<br>
<br>
From: Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:52 PM<br>
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
<br>
It is ?dangerous? going to Biglal or Bishvil ? tomorrow we will say: If it is Bishvil so why not change it to Shvil We also Romanize ???????? to ?Bi-Yerushalayim? and not to ?Birushalayim?<br>
<br>
Yossi<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:31 PM<br>
To: Gottschalk, Haim <<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a>>>; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
<br>
Hi, Haim, bi-gelal would be correct if the ? is considered a prefix to the word ???. But since there is a direct entry for the word as a whole, I?m asking if we should romanize it as a whole word instead of as a compound word.<br>
<br>
Thanks, Jasmin<br>
<br>
From: Gottschalk, Haim [mailto:<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:24 PM<br>
To: Shinohara, Jasmin; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel'<br>
Subject: RE: ????<br>
<br>
I think it should be ?biglal? and not ?bi-gelal? because of the sheva being treat as a sheva nach (which is how it is in the Alcalay). This is in my humble opinion.<br>
<br>
~Haim<br>
<br>
From: Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 11:00 AM<br>
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] ????<br>
<br>
Hello Collective Wisdom, please remind me: if there?s an entry in E-Sh., even if it ends with a ?see also?, is that sufficient justification for romanizing the word as a word as opposed to a compound? E.g. ???? has a direct entry, so I?d think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says ?see ????. So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?<br>
<br>
Thanks, Jasmin<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
Jasmin Shinohara<br>
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian<br>
University of Pennsylvania<br>
Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center<br>
3420 Walnut Street<br>
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206<br>
T. 215-746-6397<br>
<a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@upenn.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@upenn.edu</a>><br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><b>Miriam Gloger</b></span><br><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font size="1">Senior Librarian <br>Cataloging Metadata Team</font></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><span style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(153,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt;font-weight:700;white-space:pre-wrap">BookOps</span><br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-right:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">New York Public Library &</span></p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Brooklyn Public Library</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">31-11 Thomson Avenue, Long Island City, NY 11101</span></span><br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><a value="+19172299575" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">(917) 229-9575</a></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>