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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yes, this was resolved back in February, with the critical text from HCM p. 21 (“In the rare cases where Even-Shoshan may show the same word under more than one
entry element, the more 'analytical' option is chosen.”) re-added to HCMRDA, and we agreed that standard romanization of
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">בגלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">is bi-gelal (and
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">בשביל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="HE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">is bi-shevil in all cases).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+jshino=pobox.upenn.edu@lists.osu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joan Biella via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 18, 2019 7:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Yossi Galron via Heb-naco <heb-naco@lists.osu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">בגלל</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#500050">Jasmine writes:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#500050"> </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#500050">בגלל</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#500050"> </span><span style="color:#500050">has a direct entry, so I’d
think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says “see </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#500050">גלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#500050"><span dir="LTR"></span>”.
So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Doesn't HCM say, more or less, "If Even-Shoshan gives both, use THE MORE ANALYTICAL FORM"--that is, the form with the hyphen? This is done, in the same way as we write "Yerushalayim," so the 2nd part of the word will be searchable. Not
that I expect people who want to search "biglal" will search "gelal" and expect to find it, but people wanting "Yerushalayim" will find "bi-Yerushalayim" also. And so that all catalogers will romanize these things the same way, after having once looked them
up in the dictionary.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Joan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 1:29 PM Yossi Galron via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bi-melot ...<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 22:28 Marlene Schiffman via Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">We have a title that uses this word: Zeʼev Z'aboṭinsḳi, ha-ish u-mishnato : \b (bi-melot meʼah shanah le-huladto)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Marlene Schiffman<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Gottesman Library Technical Services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Yeshiva University<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">500 West 185<sup>th</sup> Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">New York, NY 10033<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">646 592-4276 (direct)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">646 592-4100 (general office)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <heb-naco-bounces+schiffma=<a href="mailto:yu.edu@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">yu.edu@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Abend-David,Ilana via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 1:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Galron, Joseph <<a href="mailto:galron.1@osu.edu" target="_blank">galron.1@osu.edu</a>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">If so how would you transliterate
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;background:yellow">במלאות</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> 25 שנה
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>? Would this be correct bi-melo'ut ?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">It is “dangerous” going to Biglal or Bishvil – tomorrow we will say: If it is Bishvil so why not change it to Shvil
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">We also Romanize
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">בירושלים
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:#1F497D">to “Bi-Yerushalayim” and not to “Birushalayim”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Yossi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gottschalk, Haim <<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">hgot@loc.gov</a>>; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi, Haim, bi-gelal would be correct if the
</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">ב</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="color:#1F497D">
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">is considered a prefix to the word </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">גלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><span dir="LTR"></span>. But since there
is a direct entry for the word as a whole, I’m asking if we should romanize it as a whole word instead of as a compound word.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks, Jasmin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Gottschalk, Haim [<a href="mailto:hgot@loc.gov" target="_blank">mailto:hgot@loc.gov</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Shinohara, Jasmin; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: </span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">בגלל</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C0504D">I think it should be “biglal” and not “bi-gelal” because of the sheva being treat as a sheva nach (which is
how it is in the Alcalay). This is in my humble opinion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C0504D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C0504D">~Haim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C0504D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> Heb-naco <<a href="mailto:heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco-bounces@lists.osu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 07, 2019 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hebrew Name Authority Funnel <<a href="mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu" target="_blank">heb-naco@lists.osu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Heb-NACO] <span lang="HE" dir="RTL">בגלל</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello Collective Wisdom, please remind me: if there’s an entry in E-Sh., even if it ends with a “see also”, is that sufficient justification for romanizing the word as a word as
opposed to a compound? E.g. <span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
בגלל</span><span lang="HE" dir="RTL"> </span>has a direct entry, so I’d think it would be romanized biglal (NOT bigelal because as a whole word, the sheva would be considered merahef, ignored in romanization), but the entry also says “see
<span lang="HE" dir="RTL" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">גלל</span><span dir="LTR"></span><span dir="LTR"></span>”. So which is it: Biglal or Bi-gelal?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks, Jasmin<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">---<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jasmin Shinohara<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hebraica Cataloging Librarian<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">University of Pennsylvania<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Van Pelt-Dietrich Library Center<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">3420 Walnut Street<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Philadelphia, PA 19104-6206<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">T. 215-746-6397<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="mailto:jshino@upenn.edu" target="_blank">jshino@upenn.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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